Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work • Hacker News Board

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#91

Post by marvin-83 » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

archi42 wrote: post #35

vowelless wrote: post #18

I am glad Dang changed the title as the original one was unnecessarily inflammatory. I don’t understand why it’s encouraged (in some companies) to discuss politics at work in a way that leads to internal issues. Purely from a commercial stance, team cohesion has a positive impact on people and product. Why do anything to disturb that? > Such a declaration could run afoul of legal boundaries in some circumstances. Whi…

> I don’t understand why it’s encouraged (in some companies) to discuss politics at work in a way that leads to internal issues. There is a middle-ground between "talking about politics" is "encouraged" and "forbidden".

yes but large organisations find the middle ground difficult to cultivate.

It requires that people avoid becoming excessively emotionally invested in the discussion; such that disagreements do not negatively impact their working relationships.

Small teams with good temperaments are easily capable of this. Large organisations tend to look for more definitive policies that can be easily laid out and enforced.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#92

Post by rubbingalcohol » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

legostormtroopr wrote: post #19

Good to see that the very non-controversial opinion of “be neutral at work and treat customers equally” is being used to compare GitHub to IBM during Nazi Germany. Why can’t GitHub just provide code version control systems without concerning itself with who is writing code? Given the recent implosion of StackOverflow, less politics in tech is probably a good thing.

I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted but no comments addressing the points you raised.

Can anyone provide an example of Nazi code being hosted on Gitlab? It might be nice to justify what otherwise looks like an absurd comparison made by this article. What would nazi code even look like? Or is "nazi" in this case just a catch-all for wrongthink?

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#93

Post by sbarzowski » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

aaomidi wrote: post #44

FYI: If you say you don't care about politics and you ban political speech in your workspace - that on its own is a political statement that you're fine with the status quo.

Not necessarily. You may just think that the costs of the discourse outweigh the benefits in some specific context.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#94

Post by Smithalicious » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

milesward wrote: post #29

Human rights aren't politics, they're non-negotiable.

Human rights exist only as a political construct formed by many treaties and agreements which have been thoroughly negotiated. I could not come up with anything more political than international law if I tried.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#95

Post by alexanderlabrie » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

Banning staff from talking politics at work shouldn't be allowed under the First Amendment.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#96

Post by mywittyname » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #23

sokoloff wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever you have reasonable adults working together? I think I’ve, on appropriate occasion, discussed politics with friends and colleagues at every workplace I’ve ever been at. [Edit: some senior leadership] openly supports the DNC and has commented to that effect at town halls. To pretend that people are apolitical or to ban all political discussions because some people can’t seem to handle disagreements in a profe…

Would you feel the same way if your current CEO openly supported the RNC?

I accept political disagreements with senior leadership as a fact of life. I've worked for many companies where this was the case; one where donations to the RNC was not-so-subtling encouraged; and another that suggested we donate to the company's PAC.

Most of us can separate our politic beliefs from our work. Regardless of how we feel about certain laws and regulations, we have to work within the limitations they impose.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#97

Post by dang » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

Kenji wrote: post #74

dang wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are great questions. But please omit the flamebait. (Edit: dvt kindly took the flamebait out—see below.) If flames take over, only the people who enjoy flaming will remain in the debate. That's a strict loss for thread quality, which is one reason for the guideline I asked everyone to remember above: " Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. " https://news.y…

Oh no, someone dares to question the left-authoritarian talking points. Better shut that discussion down.

I assumed the writer was posting from the opposite ideological position. But frankly, we don't care or even much look at that. When your job is to do the same thing over and over, after a few hundred thousand times you tend to see only the relevant bits in the mask.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#98

Post by sonotathrowaway » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:30 PM UTC

"If your values aren't used to inform who you're doing business with, why do you bother pretending to have values at all? This [merge request] demonstrates that you don't have any values except 'we want to make money, and it doesn't matter who gets hurt.'"

It sounds a lot like GitLab has a set of values that it doesn’t feel comfortable openly championing, so it just lies.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#99

Post by kemenaran » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:30 PM UTC

Technical professions are generally held responsible for what they enable. Biology: researchers can't do anything they want on plants, animals or humans. Medicine: doctors are expected to follow strict guidelines with their patients. Even engineering: implementing a cheating system for diesel tests will (rightfully) get engineers into trouble.

But software engineering seem to have a pass on how the things we build is actually used.

Dark patterns, facial recognition, mass surveillance? Just some code, a nice puzzle. It's like the profession as a whole feels only distantly connected to what they actually do.

I welcome the trend of developers taking more moral responsibility for their work. I want more ethics courses, more difficult questions, more uneasiness about what we do with our code, and what we enable. Not to be sure we build the right thing, but at least to be less wrong–and, sometimes, to know when we clearly build the wrong thing. I want us to be accountable; like other technical professions in the world.

And if in the workplace, the place where the majority of software in the world is usually produced, we can't have these discussions, what use will it be?

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#100

Post by malvosenior » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:30 PM UTC

pfranz wrote: post #86

malvosenior wrote: post #10

I'm sure everyone who has to earn a living to support their family will appreciate this move. Nothing is worse than politics at work, where you may lose your paycheck if you don't align with the correct factions.

I'm well aware I'm in a very privileged position, but I've tried to make a very strong effort throughout my career to live below my means. Maybe I'm pessimistic about losing my job or my company going under, but the freeing thing is if I'm unhappy for whatever reason I have options for leaving. I try hard not to assume or expect this from others, but I very strongly encourage it.

> I'm well aware I'm in a very privileged position

This is indeed a very privileged position. Most people need to pay rent, buy food, save for retirement, pay for their kids clothes...