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Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

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Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#91

Post by ravenstine »

chroma wrote: post #86

Nonviolent communication comes up on HN every few months and it's always the same praises and criticisms. I've been on the receiving end of NVC quite a few times in my career, and every single time it comes off as patronizing bullshit. I'd rather people yell at me than couch everything in, "I feel X" or "Would you be willing to Y". When important things must be done well, do you think this sort of language is used? O…

I think the reason it seems to work more than it actually does is because it's worst-case reaction is covert rather than overt. Someone who patronizes me or tells me sweet sounding bullshit will probably get me to hate them in silence rather than fire back immediately, since I couldn't easily prove their intent. It doesn't mean it's any better of a situation, and may result in delayed retaliation rather than just getting everything out in the open.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#92

Post by megous »

novok wrote: post #46
_def wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We all kind of rolled our eyes and went along with the exercise. I now use it to great effect almost daily in both personal and professional relationships. Reactions like that tell me once again that a lot of people really underestimate simple stuff like this. I hope that in the future simple and useful psychology topics will find their way into our schools so that the acceptance and understanding for the usefulnes…

When you actually read the book, you find it has a very awkward way of speaking which can induce eyerolls.

Though if you just follow the reasons behind the four points in the article and implement them your way, it would be fine too, no?

It's like with lots of these communication systems. (P.E.T. is similar, but more oriented at communicatuion with children) The authors have some specific examples of situations, and how they'd communicate, but it's all driven by some core principles and goals, and as long as you're also driven by and mind those all the time, you'll be fine using your own language, or the language of your peer.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#93

Post by catalogia »

klodolph wrote: post #89
catalogia wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, but I'm generally a pretty pleasant person. But when somebody adopts an formal impersonal tone like NVC, they make it clear that they don't see me as their friend and that I shouldn't consider them my friend either. As you said, NVC is good for 'forcing people to do something they don’t want.'

NVC does not mean using a formal impersonal tone. NVC is about content and context. If people are using a formal tone with you it’s for a variety of reasons—maybe that’s the appropriate tone, maybe they are frazzled and meet a framework to express themselves, and maybe they’re simply bad at it. I’m not sure why the “not a friend” part comes into it. Most people I talk to are not my friends. When people who aren’t fri…

NVC is factually impersonal and formal. Instead of having a genuine human interaction with somebody, NVC aims to lay out a method of choosing ones words carefully to influence the receiver in the desired way. Nothing about it is casual nor genuinely personal, no matter how many times you utter the word "feel".

Feel free to substitute "friend" with "somebody you treat pleasantly with the typical degree of respect". A manager who uses NVC is little different from a used car salesman who gives firm handshakes and throws around warm smiles.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#94

Post by klodolph »

catalogia wrote: post #88
klodolph wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a tool like a hammer. You can use it to do good or bad things. Like any form of communication. At least NVC is better at empowering people to get their needs met, compared to the alternatives.

At least you admit NVC is about empowering the NVC user, not something done for the benefit of the NVC receiver.

Don’t misinterpret my words.

But, OF COURSE nonviolent communication empowers the speaker. It’s about articulating the SPEAKER’S observations, feelings, needs, and recommendations and putting them in an order where you can understand the context.

If you don’t communicate your feelings to other people, they will find it difficult to empathize with you.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#95

Post by x220 »

Tomminn wrote: post #37
aeternum wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found that some of my most worthwhile relationships have been with people that pushed me out of the comfort zone. I'd say make sure that if you do push people to change, it is for their benefit rather than yours.

Sure, but the kinds of requests NVC codifies are ones where "you hurt my feelings via action X".

No, NVC would have you say "I feel X when I notice you doing Y." The way you phrased it implies blame.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#96

Post by catalogia »

klodolph wrote: post #94
catalogia wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least you admit NVC is about empowering the NVC user, not something done for the benefit of the NVC receiver.

Don’t misinterpret my words. But, OF COURSE nonviolent communication empowers the speaker. It’s about articulating the SPEAKER’S observations, feelings, needs, and recommendations and putting them in an order where you can understand the context. If you don’t communicate your feelings to other people, they will find it difficult to empathize with you.

The receiver empathizing with the user is not considered by users of NVC as an end in and of itself, but rather a means towards an end. The real objective is getting something from them other than their empathy.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#97

Post by hos234 »

chroma wrote: post #86

Nonviolent communication comes up on HN every few months and it's always the same praises and criticisms. I've been on the receiving end of NVC quite a few times in my career, and every single time it comes off as patronizing bullshit. I'd rather people yell at me than couch everything in, "I feel X" or "Would you be willing to Y". When important things must be done well, do you think this sort of language is used? O…

Yup what works and doesn't work depends on many factors (personality type, what people have been through in life, number of dumbasses they are currently surrounded by etc) so the outcomes can be highly unpredictable no matter what you do.

But having different tools in the toolkit and awareness of what's available makes a big difference.

So I look at NVC in that context, as one tool that falls under the 'communication strategy' category. There are many tools under many categories to build trust, respect and connection with others. At the end of the day what outcomes you produce are what matters. And many times it requires a combo of tools.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#98

Post by phnofive »

chongli wrote: post #90
chroma wrote: post #86

Nonviolent communication comes up on HN every few months and it's always the same praises and criticisms. I've been on the receiving end of NVC quite a few times in my career, and every single time it comes off as patronizing bullshit. I'd rather people yell at me than couch everything in, "I feel X" or "Would you be willing to Y". When important things must be done well, do you think this sort of language is used? O…

As a math student considering a teaching career, I recently took a course on math education taught by a retired high school math teacher. One of the things she placed a heavy emphasis on was our questioning techniques and classroom management strategies. Every single one of the non-violent communication strategies you listed from the article were specifically singled out as things we should never say when asking ques…

NVC shouldn’t be practiced in uneven relationships (teacher - student, parent - child, employer - employee, customer - server) for the exact reason mentioned by GP. It’s simultaneously condescending and confusing to the party with less power, inviting them to test what leverage they can gain - usually none.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#99

Post by megous »

musicale wrote: post #32
mynameishere wrote: post #21

Just looking at the examples, these are "Sleazy salesman tips about how to get a person to say 'yes'". Anybody who uses this kind of language needs to be shut down, and bluntly.

They certainly struck me as strategies to coerce compliance, as might be used by annoying sales people, con artists, cult evangelists, political/charity representatives, pick-up artists, etc.. Worse, when there's any power differential (e.g your boss saying any of this stuff to you) then it sounds very unpleasant and dishonest.

Although aimed at parent-child communication (and maybe because of it!) P.E.T. (parent effectiveness training, also a long established book/communication system) is quite good in this regard, when there's a great difference in power between parties.

For example an additional thing that it stresses is a bigger need for the person with more power, to identify "who owns the problem", before choosing how to communicate about it and also how to help people make their own decisions/find their own solutions.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#100

Post by rogerkirkness »

chroma wrote: post #86

Nonviolent communication comes up on HN every few months and it's always the same praises and criticisms. I've been on the receiving end of NVC quite a few times in my career, and every single time it comes off as patronizing bullshit. I'd rather people yell at me than couch everything in, "I feel X" or "Would you be willing to Y". When important things must be done well, do you think this sort of language is used? O…

I tend to agree with this. I struggle with non-violent communication. All the violence I've experienced in communication has been high social skill people passive aggressively using "appropriate channels" and "emotional intelligence" to harm me. I tend to prefer directness whether it's up or down the power ladder, and yet the trend is away from that overall. It's sort of minority rule too, where most people prefer directness, but a few people really hate it and force "non-violence" on everyone. Of course, the forcing bit implicates violence...
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