Harold Bloom Has Died • Hacker News Board

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#91

Post by dbspin » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 10:33 AM UTC

saberience wrote: post #89

briga wrote: post #65

There are few people who've read so widely and deeply as Harold Bloom. For all his idiosyncrasies as a critic and for whatever personal flaws he might have had, he inspired a generation of readers to read more and explore the classics of Western civilization. His books are valuable guides to the vast world of Western literature, and if they help preserve even a fraction of that heritage for the next generation of rea…

He only read deeply or widely when it came to the "classics" of Western Literature. He was incredibly biased towards Western literature and especially English language literature. He had an irrational hatred for anything that became "popular" such as Harry Potter, Tolkien, or Stephen King. He couldn't handle novels which (in his opinion) weren't difficult or erudite that the "average" person could understand easily.

Thats completely fine, since there are a endless number of critics who fill in the gaps in Bloom's preferences. Few take seriously his canonical approach to literature anymore, but that doesn't make his critical approach to given works, or the appreciation he communicates for literature any less valuable.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#92

Post by davidwihl » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 10:37 AM UTC

kieckerjan wrote: post #84

pixelmonkey wrote: post #58

I wrote an essay about Bloom’s conception of “the Canon” back in 2003. Was probably my favorite essay I published publicly from that period. I still go back to it from time to time, thinking especially about Bloom’s concept of “The Anxiety of Influence”. The thread I weave starts from a piece by Walker Percy, entitled “The Loss of the Creature”. That one is somewhat esoteric and underrated, but beautifully describes…

Completely tangental, but nevertheless. Your quote of Percy brought back a memory. Almost thirty years ago I was in Avignon. It was scorchingly hot, with temperatures reaching into the 40 degrees Celsius range. My girlfriend and I sought refuge against the heat in the neighbouring village of Villeneuve-Les-Avignon. There was going to be a festival of old music there in the remains of an old fortress that evening. We…

sounds like a scene from “Tous les matins du monde”

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#93

Post by angry_octet » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 11:33 AM UTC

whiddershins wrote: post #47

jchallis wrote: post #2

I used to tutor math and physics near Bloom's office in Timothy Dwight. My main association with the man is that he would come on strong to every female English graduate student he could reach. When #MeToo first came to national consciousness about men in arts and letters who completely abused their position to take advantage of women, I thought of Harold. How could these giants of arts and letters abuse so many? Bec…

You can do as you like, but for me it is a decent heuristic to not speak ill of the dead. I, personally, really don’t enjoy reading about people using someone’s death or funeral as a platform for maligning their life, regardless of the accuracy and poignancy of the claims. Would you bring up this discussion in front of a grieving family member? Do you think it impossible someone already in pain might read what is sai…

Your feelings are really of no consequence compared to those who were victims. If you have a personal interaction to weigh in the positive side of the scales, speak now.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#94

Post by SquishyPanda23 » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 12:19 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #80

SquishyPanda23 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are entitled to like sex and to approach people for relationships that may become sexual. If female grad students were inviting him over for booty calls I think the tone of the conversation would be much different. But the claim is that he was making advances on people who didn't welcome them. This is especially a problem since he was an influential professor with power over their careers. Even for professors,…

> But the claim is that he was making advances on people who didn't welcome them. That was part of my point. One can be crash or sexist like that and still a great writer/thinker/etc. The other ("If female grad students were inviting him over for booty calls I think the tone of the conversation would be much different") of course goes without saying!

Sure I don't disagree that people with significant failings can do good creative work. My go-to example is always Teichmuller, who produced beautiful mathematics and was a literal Nazi.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#95

Post by smallnamespace » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

p1necone wrote: post #25

jeffdavis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two separate issues: speaking ill of the dead at all; and speaking disrespectfully too soon after a death. Speaking ill of the dead at all is generally not good because the person is no longer able to defend their reputation, and no remedy can be made. The dead is no longer in a position of power to be removed, nor can they improve themselves out of remorse. So of something ill is to be said, saying it afte…

I don't know that I consider calling people out for shitty things they've done to be "disrespectful". Calling people out for shitty things they haven't done would be be disrespectful.

The problem with that attitude is that we all live in glass houses.

Unless you truly believed that if we were to go through your life with a fine toothed comb, nobody could find anything at all objectionable?

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#96

Post by SomeOldThrow » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

teflodollar wrote: post #45

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are these contradictory? He is obviously both.

I don't think they're in any way contradictory. I think he was a genuinely great critic, and that can't be taken away from him. But that doesn't mean I can't be disappointed to learn he made female graduate students uncomfortable. Similarly I fully support Handke winning the Nobel this year, but it doesn't mean I can't deplore his support of Milosevic.

Also stop supporting the Nobel Prizes. They’re bullshit.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#97

Post by SomeOldThrow » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

mellosouls wrote: post #32

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t believe I have. What do claims of plagiarism have to do with claims of sexual harassment? Your post seems to defame the alleged victim.

That wasn't the intent; but as you and at least one other have read it that way I've removed it.

Thanks :)

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#98

Post by zebraflask » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 4:04 PM UTC

vonnik wrote: post #19

Strange side note: A friend of mine knew Bloom, and one of Bloom's favorite books was Little, Big, by John Crowley. Bloom said he saw parallels between the 2016 election and the second coming of Barbarossa.

It is a great book for its genre - modern fantasy without the cheesiness that I think Bloom didn't like about popular fantasy series.

I didn't know he hated Harry Potter. Raises my opinion of him.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#99

Post by angry_octet » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 9:57 PM UTC

djrobstep wrote: post #37

jerf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't speak ill of the dead like this. It is uncouth and crass for all sorts of reasons. It doesn't mean you need to forget or ignore it, it just means... today is not the day. More days will come.

Actually it's very good to speak ill of the dead when they have done bad things. When we are all thinking about them and their legacy is an opportune time to discuss the underlying issues. How else can we accurately remember the dead, and learn from their actions?

I don't know about Bloom, but it has become abundantly clear of late that many sexual predators and generally nasty people were very good at covering up their misdeeds, and enabled in so doing by institutions and silent conspirators. I'm completely over this idea 'yes he may have abused X, but he made great thing Y, let's remember him as a great fellow'. It's time for complex appraisals, and to say 'yes, he was a shit' if that was the reality, even if some illusions are shattered.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#100

Post by LeonB » Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 12:21 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #82

LeonB wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in power are the only ones who have opportunities to abuse power. People who are given power and abuse that power should have that power taken away from them. There’s plenty of other people who will fill their role.

And what if they people who "are given power and abuse that power" are still by far the best for the role? One can imagine a politician who is a thief for example, stealing public money or who uses the state to harm his personal enemies, but is still a genius of public policy, great for steering the economy, a great leader at war, and so on. In the end, the amount of money they stole e.g. (in the case of the embezzle…

The case at hand is an older man who interacts with younger students. Half of them don’t feel safe around him. He’s going to have to do an astounding job with the remaining 50% to make up for that.

It’s not about declaring some people “good” before hand. It’s more about spotting when power is being abused and giving someone else a go.

A government area very close to here recently arrested a politician who was also the most popular politician in the country (by % votes). He’s now been found guilty of some crimes the scale of which is quite small compared to the absolute scale of the area he ran. But all of his decisions and appointments will now be examined. There are definitely plus and minuses to his downfall. But on balance I’m glad that people didn’t continue to turn a blind eye to his corruption, even if some of it “got the job done” faster.