Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events • Hacker News Board

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#91

Post by rndgermandude » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 10:46 AM UTC

lultimouomo wrote: post #73

zbraniecki wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"should be prioritized" is a very subjective statement. Out of every 100 tickets, there is 50 people who believe theirs is the most important one. And we have over 200k tickets total (not all are bugs, many are resolved, but the scale is massive). If you think a bug is easy to fix, pleasez consider providing a patch.

I find it hard to believe you don't know that casually contributing to Firefox is ridiculously hard. The build system is borderline insane, building takes hours, and most importantly people who can approve your changes clearly have more important things to do and regularly fail to answer. I have tried contributing a couple of times. Thank you, no more.

I casually contribute to Firefox and it's not ridiculously hard. It is a somewhat steep learning curve if you contribute for the first time, primarily getting acquainted to the build system, the area of the code you're fixing, and then finding the right people to nag about reviews, but it is far from ridiculously hard.

It used to be ridiculously hard, back in the days of hq merge queues or even cvs, I give you that, but the general build stuff improved a lot since then.

The build system is hg clone/git clone + ./mach bootstrap + ./mach build... And there is a lot of docs for it too. I wouldn't call that "borderline insane".

Submitting a patch for review is a only moz-phab command away (after you set it up once, which took me under half an hour).

A full build on a slow machine can take hours indeed (on my 2015 macbook it takes about about 2 hours I think, but my beefy desktop finishes in under one hour). But you often do not even need a full build, but an artifact build[1], which brings it down to a few minutes and just a few seconds on rebuilds (./mach build faster).

>and most importantly people who can approve your changes clearly have more important things to do and regularly fail to answer.

Now that's actually a problem. It's usually not that they are too busy to respond, but that they do not read their bug mail (because they get thousands of emails a day). That's why you either have to actually request a review or need-info them on bugzilla. That usually draws their attention, simply because review requests are listed in a neat list and need-info-s are listed in another neat list, and if that still fails to grab attention, there is enough folks on the irc channels who can either help you directly or point you in the right direction.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Developer_g...

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#92

Post by yreg » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 10:48 AM UTC

I find the tone the maintainers used when talking to reporters interesting.

>[Do you have a] live website or is it a project under development? […] We will fix the issue for 78 if that is alright with you.

or

>Are they going to upgrade to 77? Enterprise customers usually only upgrade if things are alright.

As if the reporter's apps were more special than the thousands of other websites that it broke.

And I don't mean this in a negative way, I'm just surprised.

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#93

Post by mpol » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 10:48 AM UTC

pawelmurias wrote: post #82

nly wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that Chrome ended Opera, and is effectively ending IE/Edge, people really need to take pause and appreciate and be thankful that Firefox is still around. I think the "shady shit" Mozilla has pulled lately are death rattles. I certainly don't expect it to be around in another 5-10 years. Firefox's tiny market share is all that stands between all the W3C and WHATG publications going from "standards" to "what Chro…

Why would they ever do an IE6? They don't want to cripple the web as an application platform as MS did but move as much things as possible onto it.

"Doing an IE6" for Google would be quite different from what Microsoft did, who wanted the desktop to stay relevant. For Google the web is just an advertisement platform. If/When Firefix is gone, they will hold all the cards. "Doing an IE6" might mean removing support for ad-blockers. Or making Google DNS mandatory. Or have everything you do on the web be phoned to Google, to improve your advertising experience. Assume they will find creative ways to monetize the web, ways that we didn't even think of yet. If you thought the web in 2019 was bad, beware of the Google Future.

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#94

Post by londons_explore » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 10:49 AM UTC

yreg wrote: post #92

I find the tone the maintainers used when talking to reporters interesting. >[Do you have a] live website or is it a project under development? […] We will fix the issue for 78 if that is alright with you. or >Are they going to upgrade to 77? Enterprise customers usually only upgrade if things are alright. As if the reporter's apps were more special than the thousands of other websites that it broke. And I don't mean…

> As if the reporter's apps were more special than the thousands of other websites that it broke.

Frequently breakage like this affects literally only one site. The engineer probably thought that was the case here.

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#95

Post by Santosh83 » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 10:49 AM UTC

est wrote: post #77

After the Chromium removed chrome://net-internals/, the browser is not worth it anymore.

Wow, why on earth did they do this!? Are they trying to hobble devs working with their browser?

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#96

Post by londons_explore » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 10:55 AM UTC

throwaway_bad wrote: post #78

Waterluvian wrote: post #11

I've been dealing with a massive performance regression in the canvas API. The frustrating bit is that they were well aware of the cost and made the change anyways. They didn't seem to stop and consider what effect it might have on major libraries and applications. https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=100184...

Interacting with googlers is horrifying. He was ready to commit to the bad decision until he was threatened with a PR disaster of breaking the software used by "hundreds of thousands of school kids". I can't help but think that if a lowly dev like me were to report the issue the "won't fix" would've stuck.

They are very responsive to data.

Hundreds of people saying "My app is broken" isn't data. Someone saying "based on a search of the top Alexa 1 million sites, this will affect 8% of users" will catch their attention.

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#97

Post by mstade » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 11:03 AM UTC

favadi wrote: post #71

eitland wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How comes nobody has sued them over that yet?!!

Which rule they violated?

I wonder if a case could be built on accessibility grounds actually...

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#98

Post by stefan_ » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 11:03 AM UTC

Love the random comments in the bug tracker. "We have an enterprise-level software affected, what is the ETA?"

Lots of folks just figuring out web apps don't run in a metaspherical happy place or "the cloud", no, they run on fucking Chrome and you are not paying for it.

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#99

Post by jedimastert » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 11:09 AM UTC

egeozcan wrote: post #9

I switched to Firefox after they stopped caring about usability issues (like right clicking without releasing left mouse button deselects the text since v fifty-something on windows), the difficulties they created for ad blockers, the account integration fiasco, and so on. I know this particular bug seems to be an edge case that may happen with every browser, but when you are using Chrome, you should know that if an…

> I know this particular bug seems to be an edge case that may happen with every browser, but when you are using Chrome, you should know that if an issue doesn't affect Google, it will likely be deprioritized a lot.

Not to be that guy, but if you take a look at the bug a fix has been merged into 77

Re: Chrome 77 Breaking Drag and Drop Events

#100

Post by mrec » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 11:16 AM UTC

anon34568911 wrote: post #53

egeozcan wrote: post #9

I switched to Firefox after they stopped caring about usability issues (like right clicking without releasing left mouse button deselects the text since v fifty-something on windows), the difficulties they created for ad blockers, the account integration fiasco, and so on. I know this particular bug seems to be an edge case that may happen with every browser, but when you are using Chrome, you should know that if an…

Firefox could be a lot better with usability issues, too. They will agree on something being an issue and then let the ticket sit there for months and years, even if it's something that's easy to fix and should be prioritized.

I consider that vastly better than the Chrome approach, which just robo-closes all bug reports more than X months old and tells you to open a new ticket if you still care. This happened even if there was traffic on the ticket indicating that yes, it was still an issue and affecting multiple people.

I stopped bothering raising Chrome bug reports years ago.