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The China Cultural Clash

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Re: The China Cultural Clash

#91

Post by drcode »

Merrill wrote: post #45

Since diversity is a strength, it would seem that the ideal situation globally is to have a diversity of economic, political and legal systems. If instead, these systems around the globe tend towards similarity and strong coupling, the result is likely to be fragility and instability. By having weakly coupled diverse systems with well defined interfaces, the overall global system becomes more robust and disturbances…

You think totalitarian regimes like China and North Korea are OK, because "diversity"?

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#92

Post by tpmx »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #30
tpmx wrote: post #4

This article frames this as the US vs China, but it's really been the "Western world" vs China. And the western world has been incredibly naive and uncoordinated when it comes to dealing with China. We've all accepted the incredibly one-sided deal, in some kind of idealistic hope that the Chinese would latch on to "western" values of democracy etc just by trading with us. Edit: World -> Western world.

> We've all accepted the incredibly one-sided deal, in some kind of idealistic hope that the Chinese would latch on to "western" values of democracy etc just by trading with us To expand on this, the history of economic and democratic development were thought to go hand in hand. Not only had it borne out in Western Europe, it also showed traction in post-war Japan and India. So the hypothesis, that a wealthier China…

I feel like this analysis completed my incomplete thinking. Bravo.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#93

Post by JoshuaMulliken »

zarro wrote: post #41

I see lots of Anti-China sentiment. I would be very careful here into not falling into their deliberate trap of making "The West" China's "Enemy". China in its current totalitarian form needs an "Enemy" to survive, without it, it has to deal with difficult internal questions which will force it to adapt and change - and this what scares them. Totalitarian governments rely on distraction and misdirection of the popula…

When a country takes actions that limit our freedom and attack our companies to enforce their values, it is next to impossible not to consider them an "Enemy."

There is not a way to help China deal with their internal questions; it is now a matter of pushing back.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#94

Post by jakemoshenko »

yorwba wrote: post #31
juanjmanfredi wrote: post #20

I'm curious as to what happens if the NBA does in fact get banned from China. I've always wondered whether, as the Chinese economy grows and living standards rise, individuals would ever feel more entitled to individual rights. Of course maybe this is just a western bias. If the NBA was blocked, would passionate Chinese NBA fans (of which there are many) fall in line? Or not?

They'd just watch via VPN, if other bans are any indication. Of course not everyone knows how to use a VPN, but the NBA becoming unavailable might be an impetus to figure it out.

I read an article recently that made it seem as if VPN wasn't the panacea for GFW that westerner's think it is. Apparently the GFW throttles encrypted connections heavily outside of normal business hours.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#95

Post by guelo »

knzhou wrote: post #79
mlyle wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people want a Great Firewall. I just don't want economic power being concentrated by foreign states to suppress political speech here.

This is exactly my point. You, an American citizen, call it "economic power being concentrated by foreign states". But Chinese citizens call it "ordinary people boycotting offensive speech". It's the NFL kneeling protests and boycotts again, except divided by country rather than by red/blue within the US. It's annoying to have people you don't know come in and tell you your speech is offensive, and if you want that t…

Nobody, including Chinese citizens thinks this is "ordinary people boycotting offensive speech", this is government action.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#96

Post by jimclegg »

mfer wrote: post #25
tpmx wrote: post #4

This article frames this as the US vs China, but it's really been the "Western world" vs China. And the western world has been incredibly naive and uncoordinated when it comes to dealing with China. We've all accepted the incredibly one-sided deal, in some kind of idealistic hope that the Chinese would latch on to "western" values of democracy etc just by trading with us. Edit: World -> Western world.

The world vs China? The US, Canada, the EU, and Australia make up less than 20% of the worlds population. India, the many countries of Africa and South and Central America are places I've not heard from on this. And, there is a large population there. Is it the world vs China or the parts of the world we typically listen to vs China?

It takes a certain level of Eurocentricism to believe roughly 4 countries are the world.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#97

Post by colorincorrect »

counterpoint: anglo-sphere internet is very hostile towards right-winged content, with the exception of a few special purpose "containment"-websites and social media personalities. but these people are also pretty much ignored. this is defacto censorship, or more accurately, a publication ban.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#98

Post by peter_retief »

justinzollars wrote: post #42

Having recently traveled to China, returning home made me very thankful to live in a Western Democracy. Many of my day to day problems are overstated, and I think our appreciation for liberty is under appreciated.

Liberty is very hard to achieve and very easy to lose.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#99

Post by Merrill »

mlyle wrote: post #66
Merrill wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every large organization has firewalled its internet protocol networks for decades. It's incomprehensible why some thought nations wouldn't do so as well.

> Every large organization has firewalled The primary purpose of this is to enforce security for connections. Not every large organization employs content filtering, and those that do mostly only enforce a minimal standard of what is acceptable for work.

Not all subnets have Internet access, HTTPS is proxied for those that do, email attachments are scanned, and there is a large list of web sites to which access is blocked, likely including social networks like twitter and facebook. Depending on your employer, they may ask you to cease posting on social media when hired since they do not want to deal with employees causing controversy.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#100

Post by zjaffee »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #50
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that Cook became CEO because of his logistics and operations work in China, so there is a lot of legacy to go on. Apple assembles iPhones in Brazil and I believe India now, but these are mostly for high tariff reasons. Much of what goes into an iPhone isn’t made in china (and what is made in China can easily be made elsewhere), but they are mostly made in east Asia, so having assembly done somewhere in the regio…

But they don't own any factories, right? Wouldn't it destroy Foxconn and only defer revenue a bit for Apple? Maybe a few people who just gotta have the newest, latest, and greatest gadget will switch to a Flagship android because they can't wait for the new iPhone. But most people are pretty loyal / trapped into their mobile ecosystem. I doubt it would materially affect Apple's market share or their revenue long-term…

The manufacturing cost of an iphone is closer to 400 dollars, the cost of manufacturing doubling would be a huge hit to apple.
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