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VPN⁰: A Privacy-Preserving Distributed VPN

brave.com

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Re: VPN⁰: A Privacy-Preserving Distributed VPN

#91

I refuse to use a browser with a cryptocurrency attached to it. It feels like the only reason it is being pushed so hard is so BAT holders can make a buck. It might be a great browser but I will always think of it as onecoin with a some chrome tossed in.

Hello, John! I'm Sampson, a developer on the browser. The BAT component is not on-by-default in Brave. By default, you get a browser that blocks third-party trackers (and the ads that rely on them), prevents fingerprinting, crypto-jacking, auto-play media, and more.

Unfortunately, the ad-system that has become infested with malicious tracking and more is also a means by which creators across the Web find support. This is why Brave introduced the Brave Rewards component. So that we can create not only a safer Web, but a sustainable Web.

Opting-in to Brave Rewards means you're able to earn tokens for your attention. By default, these tokens are then donated to the sites and properties you visit throughout the month. The more you visit a property, the higher their end-of-month contribution will be.

All of this works without violating your privacy, thanks to on-device matching of ads and machine-learning. The token integration is a minimal component, but with a massive impact on the long-term sustainability of the Web. I'm happy to answer any other questions you may have.

All the best!

Re: VPN⁰: A Privacy-Preserving Distributed VPN

#92

I refuse to use a browser with a cryptocurrency attached to it. It feels like the only reason it is being pushed so hard is so BAT holders can make a buck. It might be a great browser but I will always think of it as onecoin with a some chrome tossed in.

Two comments:

* BAT is a non-financial utility token, not a currency.

* The Brave Referral Program specifically prohibited participants from making statements that BAT is a currency, a store of value, or an investment.

Examples of real-world non-financial utility tokens are amusement-park ride tickets and beer-garden food-and-drink tickets.

Re: VPN⁰: A Privacy-Preserving Distributed VPN

#93

I refuse to use a browser with a cryptocurrency attached to it. It feels like the only reason it is being pushed so hard is so BAT holders can make a buck. It might be a great browser but I will always think of it as onecoin with a some chrome tossed in.

Exactly. I am a big hater of everything that even remotely feels like a shitcoin. BAT is a silly useless project; I would not hate it if there was no conflict of interests, even if it's a silly project; but there is a huge conflict of interest - the developers want to make money out of thin air by issuing their tokens. I already wrote this before in another comment. Basic Attention Token is not a secure cryptographic…

There seems to be some confusion here; users aren't paid for watching ads in Brave. When an ad notification has been delivered, the user is paid. There's a subtle difference there. Brave (because it is the browser) is able to determine when an ad has been displayed, better than any JavaScript-based client that exists today on the Web. Presently, ads are only shown as desktop notifications (no publisher ads at this time). When the notification is registered, your end-of-month payout increases.

Judging by your choice of words, I assume you're a proponent of using Bitcoin. We did this, originally. Unfortunately, Bitcoin was at that time experiencing serious issues with network congestion and large fees. Our users (who only with to buy $5 or $10 at a time) would often have to pay nearly as much in fees. That clearly isn't sustainable. Introducing BAT (on the Ethereum blockchain) meant we had a faster, more reliable system. It also meant the creation of the User Growth Pool, a reservoir of 300 million tokens that could be gifted to early users to raise this novel apparatus off the ground (and it has been working wonderfully at that).

If there are any questions I can answer for you, I'd be happy to chat further.

Re: VPN⁰: A Privacy-Preserving Distributed VPN

#94
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares? You don't have to use the crypto part of it at all.

Idk – with something as crucial as a browser I want the people who give it to me to have a clear and obvious incentive structure.

Brave Software has a clear and obvious incentive structure. Here is the business model:

1. Build and maintain a browser which creates a local profile of its user, a profile which never leaves the user's machine.

2. Sell ads which can be targeted to users with certain characteristics. Distribute the entire catalog to every user's machine. The browser selects a suitable ad from the catalog and displays it to willing users.

3. Profit.

Re: VPN⁰: A Privacy-Preserving Distributed VPN

#95
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a nonsense argument. You prefer a browser that spies on you? Over a cryptocurrency you don’t have to use?

It’s not really one or the other. Firefox and Safari both exist and the incentives of the companies that run them are reasonably aligned with user privacy.

Our CEO co-founded Mozilla and Firefox. There is still a problem of invasive tracking and surveillance capitalism on the Web, and neither or these are hit as hard in Safari and Firefox as they are in a default install of Brave.

The BAT component is off-by-default in Brave. Only enabled when the user explicitly opts-in to the feature. This is a necessary component, as blocking-alone is not a solution to the sustainability problem. Blocking trackers and their ads means blocking revenue for the content creators and publishers we all know and love. Extra steps have to be made if we're going to continue to foster and grow the Web we have all come to love.

With Brave you enjoy a base-line experience of privacy and security out of the box. Opting into Brave Rewards means you can earn tokens for your attention, without giving up your data. Those tokens are automatically queued up for an end-of-month contributions to the sites and properties you visit most. Or, you can tip those properties in a one-off-manner (like I do every time I land on a Wikipedia page).

I hope this helps a bit. If there is anything further I can address, I'd be happy to chat. Thank you for your time and attention :)

Re: VPN⁰: A Privacy-Preserving Distributed VPN

#97

I refuse to use a browser with a cryptocurrency attached to it. It feels like the only reason it is being pushed so hard is so BAT holders can make a buck. It might be a great browser but I will always think of it as onecoin with a some chrome tossed in.

“I refuse to use an airline with a digital currency attached to it”

“I refuse to use a credit card with a digital currency attached to it”

But since nobody says that, you lose your mind when a blockchain based one is used? Which is also as entirely optional as the above programs? Which you use as an ad hominem attack to add non-sequiturs to any contribution under the “Brave” brand such as this ZK VPN system which doesn't even use the digital currency? Fascinating, lets revisit this “taboo” next year to see if it is one at all!

Re: VPN⁰: A Privacy-Preserving Distributed VPN

#99

I refuse to use a browser with a cryptocurrency attached to it. It feels like the only reason it is being pushed so hard is so BAT holders can make a buck. It might be a great browser but I will always think of it as onecoin with a some chrome tossed in.

Two comments: * BAT is a non-financial utility token, not a currency. * The Brave Referral Program specifically prohibited participants from making statements that BAT is a currency, a store of value, or an investment. Examples of real-world non-financial utility tokens are amusement-park ride tickets and beer-garden food-and-drink tickets.

If it's not a currency, what value does it have to the holder?

It should also be noted that the law determines what qualifies as a currency, not the issuer. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck - you know the rest.

Re: VPN⁰: A Privacy-Preserving Distributed VPN

#100
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares? You don't have to use the crypto part of it at all.

Idk – with something as crucial as a browser I want the people who give it to me to have a clear and obvious incentive structure.

I'm not a big fan of BAT, but how much clearer can the incentive structure be? Offering a browser completely for free is actually much more questionable. User becomes the product, but it's never stated anywhere. With BAT it's pretty clear who are the interested parties and why.
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