Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency • Hacker News Board

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#91

Post by ineedasername » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 2:00 AM UTC

oceanplexian wrote: post #77

colechristensen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for the first and second points, but I think it will play out much differently. Facebook will try to defy regulators, but I think the SEC will stomp on them, hard. It will end up a hybrid battle in the courts and Congress between libertarians, a few flavors of privacy advocates, US regulatory concerns, and ultimately land on US power projection concerns. I think the US will eventually shape the law and regulatory…

Sure Crypto backed by a particular company might not happen, but I don’t see BTC and similar P2P blockchain currencies going anywhere. It’s about as easy to stop as digital piracy, which is to say in other words physically impossible to regulate.

The US has a tremendous amount of power in the world financial system. If they want to inhibit crypto currencies, they can make it illegal to use credit cards to buy them, illegal for US banks to transfer to or from an exchange, and illegal for US banks to deal with any bank in any country that allows such activity, or any bank that deals with another bank that allows it.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#92

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 2:03 AM UTC

oneplane wrote: post #85

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple search results lead me to believe Facebook Messenger is the second most popular messaging app after WhatsApp. Are you able to provide references supporting your claim?

Sure but you could plug that into google as well you know. Here is the first hit: https://www.messengerpeople.com/global-messenger-usage-stati... Edit: oddly enough, that hit wasn't the one where I read about it last week... But any page with sources works I suppose.

Doesn’t that link claim 1.3 billion Facebook Messenger users?

How does that support your claim?

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#93

Post by sebastianconcpt » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 2:05 AM UTC

Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell said this summer that libra raises “serious concerns regarding privacy, money laundering, consumer protection, financial stability” and the Fed had launched a working group to examine it.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#94

Post by worik » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 2:05 AM UTC

chank wrote: post #47

ilaksh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of Libra was not really to compete with Western Union. It was more to compete with real cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Monero, etc. and it wasn't just Facebook's idea. PayPal, Visa etc. know that real cryptocurrencies are eventually going to put them out of business. That's why they joined in on this fake cryptocurrency. The reason companies are pulling out is probably just because it looks like it…

It's way more complex than that. Pretty much everyone in government and the crypto space doesn't want Libra to succeed under it's current stewardship. The implications are very far reaching. Also, there isn't a single cryptocurrency today that can't be tracked, even ones like Monero.

Also, there isn't a single cryptocurrency today that can't be tracked, even ones like Monero.

Really?

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#95

Post by kyle_v » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 2:10 AM UTC

nikanj wrote: post #22

vertex-four wrote: post #20

If Facebook attempts to become a money transfer service or bank without the required licensing, they will have their offices raided and their doors locked on them. This is something Governments don't tend to mess around with.

FB is banking (pun unnintended) on the regulators and goverments being absolutely useless lately. Both AirBnB and Uber built empires on ”What if we just ignore the rules”

But airbnb and uber were at a stage where they didn't have much to lose when they first challenged these regulations. Facebook is one of the most well known companies in the world.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#96

Post by wahern » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 2:21 AM UTC

csomar wrote: post #12

Here are some wild predictions I'm making + Many (or potentially all of the backers except Facebook) will withdraw from the alliance. + Facebook/Zuckerberg will defy the gov.s and launch Libra. + Libra might not dominate the world, but it'll be a success (at least a niche success) and it'll eat up some of the marketshare of these financial institutions. I think Zuckerberg has come (or already know) to the realization…

> Why would anybody use Western Union if they can send money through their Facebook for less or no fees?

Because Western Union accepts and delivers cash. Western Union exists for the much the same reason payday lenders exist--to service the cash economy.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#97

Post by nickpsecurity » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 2:28 AM UTC

oceanplexian wrote: post #77

colechristensen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for the first and second points, but I think it will play out much differently. Facebook will try to defy regulators, but I think the SEC will stomp on them, hard. It will end up a hybrid battle in the courts and Congress between libertarians, a few flavors of privacy advocates, US regulatory concerns, and ultimately land on US power projection concerns. I think the US will eventually shape the law and regulatory…

Sure Crypto backed by a particular company might not happen, but I don’t see BTC and similar P2P blockchain currencies going anywhere. It’s about as easy to stop as digital piracy, which is to say in other words physically impossible to regulate.

Corroborating ineedausername, Wikileaks seemed like they were unstoppable defying governments and all. Then, they said they were about to humiliate one of the U.S.'s most powerful banks. Then, Mastercard, Visa, and Paypal cut off all donations to them. Then, Wikileaks started dying off.

The government and card networks might do something similar. They could get SWIFT in on it, too, since they cooperate with governments and mostly profit from traditional banks.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#98

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 2:29 AM UTC

csomar wrote: post #12

Here are some wild predictions I'm making + Many (or potentially all of the backers except Facebook) will withdraw from the alliance. + Facebook/Zuckerberg will defy the gov.s and launch Libra. + Libra might not dominate the world, but it'll be a success (at least a niche success) and it'll eat up some of the marketshare of these financial institutions. I think Zuckerberg has come (or already know) to the realization…

[deleted]

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#99

Post by HenryKissinger » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 2:30 AM UTC

Ruphin wrote: post #53

csomar wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that 1. Same has been said of Bitcoin, and yet the government kinda embraced it. 2. Facebook is not making Libra. It is a non-profit based in Switzerland. 3. Libra is backed by USD-EUR-JPY and the related countries might turn a blind eye because of that.

Bitcoin does not have an "office" that governments can raid. Governments never embraced Bitcoin, they have no choice. It is not within reach of their usual methods of control (law enforcement, diplomacy, warfare).

It would be very easy for the government to shut down Bitcoin:

- Shut down all bitcoin exchanges hosted in the United States

- Make it illegal for banks, credit unions, and other commercial financial institutions to allow their clients to make transactions with a crypto exchange (regardless of the countries where the exchange is hosted), or a blockchain

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#100

Post by K0SM0S » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 2:33 AM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #90

csomar wrote: post #12

Here are some wild predictions I'm making + Many (or potentially all of the backers except Facebook) will withdraw from the alliance. + Facebook/Zuckerberg will defy the gov.s and launch Libra. + Libra might not dominate the world, but it'll be a success (at least a niche success) and it'll eat up some of the marketshare of these financial institutions. I think Zuckerberg has come (or already know) to the realization…

">If Libra ignored these rules..." This isn't like Uber silently encroaching on a city's taxi medallion laws with grey-area definitions of "taxi" and "employee". Facebook cannot do something like this without attracting scrutiny at every stage, and as we saw with Robinhood, the financial regulation systems are relatively quick to act. Especially if they "defy govs", then those government's will have every reason to c…

Honestly from an industrial / historical perspective, they are trying to enter a game of a whole other level than anything social-media or ad-related can ever touch. I don't know how they can win using the same strategy (disingenuosity, cheeky attitude, etc) than they used so far. It just won't fly in that space. Even bitcoin et al. look more serious by comparison, by a mile, and that's saying a lot.

Not sure if serious or delusional, actually. Over-hyped by their own kool-aid, you know. It tends to happen to surprisingly large groups in the Valley. Time will tell, but if they don't have a special sauce kinda joker to play, I just don't see it. Defying states never worked well unless said states are basically non-existent.