Live data from Hacker News

Pricing niche products

kevinlynagh.com

91–100 of 368 posts

Re: Pricing niche products

#91
When eBay first started, I loved the idea of auctions as a way to set market prices. From an economic and game-theory perspective, it is so optimal!

Clearly as later examples like Amazon have shown, auctions don't make sense for most product categories. I believe this is mainly due to psychological reasons.

Decision-fatigue is a real thing. People dislike having to think hard. In a fixed-price sale, the buyer just has to ask themselves one yes/no question: "Would I be happy buying this item for $X?" This is a very simple question to answer. In a sealed-bid auction, people have to ask themselves "What $X am I willing to pay for this item", which is a tremendously more complex question to answer. In fact, from a game theory perspective, you should never put in a bid that you're "happy with". You should put in a bid where you're exactly neutral between buying-vs-not-buying. Otherwise, you're leaving money on the table. This is asking people to make purchasing decisions whose outcomes will leave them explicitly not happy - a state of mind that every person hates putting themselves in.

Couple this together with the fact that the buyer doesn't even know whether they won the auction, until X hours/days later. And during this period of time, they are under a state of uncertainty, which is another mental state that people generally hate.

I think that for very expensive, non-time-critical and hobbyist items, an auction may work great. People may actually enjoy pouring effort into it because it is their hobby. But for any item that people just want to buy-and-move-on, auctions are a horrible mechanism. Perhaps one day when AI assistants make all our purchasing decisions for us, auctions will become the norm, but certainly not today.

Re: Pricing niche products

#92

I so want to get into mechnical keyboards but most of my work is done on a 2015 MacBook Pro and I'm so efficient with the large trackpad - I rest my palms on the laptop and can reach everything with just a pivot of the wrist. I tried the Magic Trackpad, but I kept having to move my forearm and it just slowed me down too much. What kind of mouse or trackpad is everyone using with these $xxx - $xxxx keyboards?

> What kind of mouse or trackpad is everyone using with these $xxx - $xxxx keyboards?

Mice with holes. Your mouse must have holes.

https://i.redd.it/i5s6j18i3hp31.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/DSW0lvH.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14d68Wgwevs

https://en.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/

Re: Pricing niche products

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems less like diminishing returns and more like mass hysteria at this point. The only people I personally know of who are as detached from the rest of the market are those guys who collect Telecasters.

Also vintage synthesizer collectors - although that market tops out around $150k, which is cheap compared to the most expensive one-off Steinway Grand piano models, which go for between $1m and $2m. And high end audio - turntables for $650k, etc.

I think there's a difference between "enthusiast market segment" and "investment commidities". Also even Yamaha grand pianos aren't typically purchased by individuals. More like venues, etc. AFAIK most of those prestigious Steinway models wind up in the lobbies of luxury hotels. Point is those things justify their prices in a way that $1500 keyboards don't.

But honestly I'm being cynical for no reason here. Those guy can spend money on whatever makes them happy. I am in no place to judge.

Re: Pricing niche products

#95
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People break keyboards all the time. Reinforcing them with carbon fiber seems reasonable to me. You seem to be confusing carbon fiber, which is a mild irritant like fiberglass, with carbon nanotubes. It's goofy that the keyboard enthusiasts got taken in by the marketroid term “forged carbon”, though.

I have never once broken a keyboard. I can't imagine how I would -- sit on it? It's fixed on my desk. If I did need a stronger keyboard, I'd rather have it reinforced with steel. That would have the extra benefit of keeping it in place.

Steel is a lot heavier and a lot weaker than carbon fiber. For you that's an advantage, but not for those of us who use our keyboards on trains, in cafés, in hostels, and in tents. The comforting weight of an IBM Type M keyboard gets old fast when it's stuffed in your backpack on a bike.

That probably also helps explain how we break keyboards.

Re: Pricing niche products

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not forged in a forge, it's just called that. It's just molded carbon fiber in resin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forged_composite

I would be concerned about that. Carbon fiber isn't much better than asbestos, and while both are fine if sealed in a wall, we're talking about a keyboard taking daily wear and tear with the fibers sealed under a thin layer of glue. A keyboard cannot possibly need the tensile strength, so why not just use plastic?

In this case it's all about the look! Keyboards can also be made with a solid brass/stainless steel base, in which case it's about the weight which often affects feel, acoustics and overall "heft" of it as an object. Past a certain point, people make things out of cool materials/heavy just cause they can.

Re: Pricing niche products

#97
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in case this strikes anyone as dismissive, I too sincerely miss the old, beige keyboards that used to come with things like the old IBM, Tiny, MiTac, and Amiga brands I scavenged as a teenager. And those things were _robust_ - you could strip them down, soak them in detergent overnight, and have them good as new the next day without key caps falling off or the space bar sticking.

Those keyboard enthusiasts are in fact obsessing about the very same keyboards you mention, like the IBM Model M. One of those in good condition can be sold for quite a bit of money.

I had no idea :D I just thought they were exceptionally robust, and - ironically - cheap as chips at the time. Now that I think about it, yes, the term "chiclet" clearly contrasts with those older models. I have quite a few buried somewhere, might be time to break out the detergent again ;)

Re: Pricing niche products

#98
post #2

I have a $600+ keyboard so I'm a part of this hobby. However, only a part of this can be explained by the expense of manufacturing at a small scale. The hobby fully embraces the drawbacks of the small scale and intentionally does nothing to try to improve it because the exclusivity drives prices up to an insane point. A typical group buy for a popular case sells out in minutes or days time after time. Clearly some of…

> My Keycaps cost 170 of that. They are modelled after the Space Cadet keyboard from an old LISP Machine. This was uneccessary obviously but I liked them.

and now provide a link, please :)

Re: Pricing niche products

#99
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in case this strikes anyone as dismissive, I too sincerely miss the old, beige keyboards that used to come with things like the old IBM, Tiny, MiTac, and Amiga brands I scavenged as a teenager. And those things were _robust_ - you could strip them down, soak them in detergent overnight, and have them good as new the next day without key caps falling off or the space bar sticking.

Those old keyboards were mechanical though weren't they? Lots of people love the old IBM ones, and they can't be found for just one euro online.

There are lots of non-model-M IBM keyboards that aren't in any demand while still being great to type on.

Re: Pricing niche products

#100

It's disappointing how so much money is being poured into "mechanical keyboard kits" that simply re-create the old ANSI/ISO layouts that are rooted in old limitations from the days of the typewriter. Alternate layouts & ortholinear/ergonomic designs should be the forefront of the movement. All this focus on outdated designs makes the community "accessible" but also holds people back. The emergence of row-staggered 40…

> It's disappointing how so much money is being poured into "mechanical keyboard kits" that simply re-create the old ANSI/ISO layouts that are rooted in old limitations from the days of the typewriter. Alternate layouts & ortholinear/ergonomic designs should be the forefront of the movement. All this focus on outdated designs makes the community "accessible" but also holds people back.

I mean most of the enthusiast keyboards allow you to program the keyboard so you can make the layout whatever you want.

Personally I won't buy any keyboard that isn't just a standard ten keyless because I

1) Don't want to have to remap my vim keys

2) Want other people to be able to use my keyboard

3) Want to be able to use other people's keyboards

Post reply on HN