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Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

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Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#91

Post by GhettoMaestro »

bilbo0s wrote: post #50
umvi wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When tech merges with brains will they demand intrusion to delete what they don't want you to remember? Yes, but only if it is possible to index/search/dump the contents of people's brains. In that case we are walking video cameras violating people's privacy everywhere we go, and it is only logical that we should mandate people get their brains wiped of privacy infringing information. How would you like it if peopl…

> In that case we are walking video cameras violating people's privacy everywhere we go This is actually not true in the US. So people should be careful and understand their rights. In the US, the government affords us no expectation of privacy when we are in public. As soon as you step out of the hotel room you and your mistress went to at lunch, it's completely legal for a private investigator to snap photos or rec…

Business idea: Privacy zones. No photography, no video-recording, no audio-recording. In fact, maybe some venues would even ban phones (like a SCIF!).

And, facial ID scanning at the door to ban repeat offenders.

For sex and swinger clubs this would be ideal. Keeps the privacy of the inside intact.

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#92

Post by GhettoMaestro »

cortesoft wrote: post #4

I really hate the 'right to be forgotten'... it infringes on other people's 'right to remember' I should be able to talk about my experience with someone else in a public forum, even if that information is something that person doesn't want others to know.

Imagine if Jeffrey Epstein had access to a legal mechanism which enabled him to attempt scrubbing of news/article/forum references of him from the web, beyond just his narrow legal conviction.

Chances are he would still be banging 12 year olds today and Bill Clinton would be smiling ear to ear. (JK obviously on that last one, but my below point will alleviate your suspicions.)

You may not like some speech, namely against you. I may not like certain speech either. But to establish this kind of legal precedent is foolish. What is next, prior restraint with regards to anyone mentioned in an article? I'm sure Big Daddy Donnie Trump would love that one lol.

Free speech is messy as fuck. Look at this "fake news" stuff for the past 3 years. Is it really fake? Debatable. Is it news? In most cases, yes.

Legitimate question I pose: Does free speech extend to deep fakes? (Finally those believing in the Clintons being child sacrificing cultists can be proven true!) This has the potential to get real messy real fast. Hopefully someone with a IEEE/DARPA-level big brain figures out a way to validate videos etc.

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#93

Post by kd3 »

PureParadigm wrote: post #81
tobr wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under specific circumstances, yeah.

Wouldn't that seem to violate the idea of freedom of speech? What if someone running for public office requests that I "forget" and not share what I know about some bad things they did in the past?

The way I see it, this European law is already quite dangerous and will become more so as tech merges with our brains. People might wake up one day having 'forgotten,' for example that Trump grabbed someone by the pussy, because some court decided so. Similar to how users saw copies of the book 1984 disappear from their Kindles not long ago because Amazon felt like it.

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#94

Post by tobr »

PureParadigm wrote: post #81
tobr wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under specific circumstances, yeah.

Wouldn't that seem to violate the idea of freedom of speech? What if someone running for public office requests that I "forget" and not share what I know about some bad things they did in the past?

Perhaps it would, but there are plenty of other restrictions on freedom of speech. And this particular law does not apply to news media etc, as far as I understand - just search engines and similar databases.

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#95

Post by [deleted] »

kd3 wrote: post #88
twiceaday wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are arguing against an oversimplified slogan. The actual ruling is about the right for your public information to not be indexed and publicized.

You have as much rights over 'your' public info as everyone else. You can't dictate to others what to do with it without violating their rights. Therefore, people should learn to think before they act instead of complaining when their acts become public and try to take it down. Edward Snowden has a nice personal bit on this in his new book.

[deleted]

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#96

Post by krapp »

tuscen wrote: post #76
krapp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet is not, nor was it ever, intended to provide the world a canonical and immutable record of "history." To claim that deleting content from the internet is tantamount to "deleting history" is absurd. It's always been legal for a search engine or a website to unpublish or remove content. The only thing the right to be forgotten does is establish that a person has some form of ownership over content that's p…

The internet is effectively history. Real history started with the internet. So deleting something from the internet is deleting history.

If you look closely you'll see that your comment doesn't actually contradict or disprove mine. That we as a civilization decided to move the entirety of our cultural output to the house of cards that is the internet is orthogonal to its nature and purpose.

You don't get to arbitrarily decide that now everything on the internet has to be immutable and that no one should have the right to ever delete anything from their servers because "history," or that all personally identifiable information has to be preserved just in case the mobs want to doxx someone in the future.

Also:

>Real history started with the internet.

What does this even mean?

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#97

Post by rekabis »

This is still so easy to circumvent.

If it is purely by domain, switch away from google.ca and use google.com to get the results you need.

If it uses geolocation of any kind, use a VPN that allows you to switch between endpoints, and use an endpoint in the States to bring up Canadian information.

In the end, this is nothing more than privacy theatre, in that these changes are only cosmetic and skin-deep.

Granted, I am of the firm opinion that all data is sacrosanct, and that the only thing that should be scrubbable from the Internet is misinformation that has been _proven_ to be demonstrably false by a court of law. Things like prior convictions should not be admissible unless you were later cleared of all charges and the convictions are clearly not in the public’s interest.

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#98

Post by parliament32 »

rekabis wrote: post #97

This is still so easy to circumvent. If it is purely by domain, switch away from google.ca and use google.com to get the results you need. If it uses geolocation of any kind, use a VPN that allows you to switch between endpoints, and use an endpoint in the States to bring up Canadian information. In the end, this is nothing more than privacy theatre, in that these changes are only cosmetic and skin-deep. Granted, I a…

People keep trying to force the internet to follow country borders but they don't understand it just doesn't work that way. It's kinda like when your vegetarian neighbours keep complaining about BBQ smells wafting over to their property: the wind doesn't know or care about your property lines.

I don't think any information should be removed/removable from the internet, as long as there is demand for it. Users need to be a bit more savvy for expecting and identifying misinformation though.

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#99

Post by unionpivo »

cortesoft wrote: post #4

I really hate the 'right to be forgotten'... it infringes on other people's 'right to remember' I should be able to talk about my experience with someone else in a public forum, even if that information is something that person doesn't want others to know.

No EU law is stopping you.

But if you write an article about someone, that contain outdated or false information, you can use right to be forgotten, to at least remove it from search indexes.

Article is still accessible, you can still link it, on HN or reddit or wikipedia, you just wont find it on google search results.

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#100

Post by unionpivo »

jasode wrote: post #30
cortesoft wrote: post #4

I really hate the 'right to be forgotten'... it infringes on other people's 'right to remember' I should be able to talk about my experience with someone else in a public forum, even if that information is something that person doesn't want others to know.

>I should be able to talk about my experience with someone else in a public forum, even if that information is something that person doesn't want others to know. I previously asked[0] how EU would treat a convicted rapist such as (American) Brock Turner. The reply by commenter IAmEveryone says the law would prohibit the victim from writing about it. (If the scenario is not clear, a victim's blogpost is not a search i…

In such specific situation, EU law is quite clear and right to be forgotten does not apply. Since its in public interest.

It would only apply in case it was later found that rapist was framed and then exonerated. In such case he could claim right to be forgotten, to get all of old false articles removed. Of course people try to abuse this, just like everything else (like using american DMCA to kill videos, articles they don't like)

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