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Software Engineering Grads Lack the Skills Startups Need

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91–100 of 181 posts

Re: Software Engineering Grads Lack the Skills Startups Need

#91

This is a valid reason to consider a trade school model ("coding bootcamps") to fill this niche. Let Computer Science programs focus on the Computer "Science", while trade schools focus on fulfilling direct company needs. Of course, we need a _ton_ more oversight involved to ensure that bootcamps are actually graduating people with a job-ready skillset.

Trade schools don't turn out people ready to be productive on day 1 either. People that complete trade schools will be partnered up with more experienced people, either informally or as part of some apprenticeship model, they'll be doing grunt work for quite a while.

Experience matters and it's not something you get in any school.

Re: Software Engineering Grads Lack the Skills Startups Need

#92
Colleges are not here to serve startups. Colleges are to help students build a skill set that will serve them throughout their lives. If a startup does not want to invest in a recent college grad, there are many other more experienced hires they can make.

Thinking that free training which is being provided by someone else should fit your custom needs is, well, maybe not the best business case.

Re: Software Engineering Grads Lack the Skills Startups Need

#93

Some highlights that I felt were very on point: > Students are taught formal testing methods such as static analysis, which checks code without actually running it. This helps them understand how to test software programs, but it doesn’t address the testing of distributed systems, web services, and infrastructure resiliency. Examination of these types of user interfaces and back-end systems is essential, Devadiga say…

One idea could be to take a page out of phys/chem/bio departments by introducing “lab” courses that have no lectured instructional component (usually you take both lecture and related lab in the same semester).

These labs tend to organize students into pairs or small groups who proceed through a sequence of onsite exercises that attempt to closely emulate more complex scenarios; thus synthesizing the application of multiple book/lecture-learned skills in an environment that naturally elucidates and facilitates the practical systems engineering and communication skills that are only otherwise learned in the workplace.

Student performance in a lab is typically evaluated from structured record keeping of methodology and analysis (testing & documentation). There is also often a presentation component that helps students learn how to effectively communicate results to an audience.

One can imagine lab teams collaborating on all aspects of software engineering including requirements gathering, systems design, infrastructure provisioning, deployment automation, CI/CB/CT, integration testing, release management, diagnostics/troubleshooting, etc. Experienced graduate students can be recruited to play the various roles of chaos monkeys, users and business stakeholders.

Students would get a healthy dose of teamwork experience, and have some tangible software deliverables to seed their technical portfolios.

It even sounds pretty fun!

Re: Software Engineering Grads Lack the Skills Startups Need

#94

I didn't even know schools had 'Software Engineering programs. I've met plenty of Computer Science grads, though. It's truly different. Engineering is more like trade school, Computer Science is foundational. I'll probably hire you with a CS degree, but I know I'm going to need to teach you how to be a software engineer.

Real engineering is not the same as software engineering. There is no engineering in software as no designer signs their name to their code and is legally responsible for when it crashes and goes wrong. Real engineers are.

Re: Software Engineering Grads Lack the Skills Startups Need

#95
post #77
post #27

Isn't this just observing the fact that college isn't the same as work experience, and only provides the base skill-set needed to enter enter the industry? "When you join a startup, there’s a lot of emphasis on the design of the application, reusability and clean code, and the ability to conduct and undergo code reviews, as well as the ability to think of and build systems that can scale based on users and geography"…

> "When you join a startup, there’s a lot of emphasis on the design of the application, reusability and clean code, and the ability to conduct and undergo code reviews, as well as the ability to think of and build systems that can scale based on users and geography" How can anyone take the article seriously? These are all problems that startups punt on until after they've suceeded.

I didn’t take it seriously, but mainly because that was written like these are things that a large enterprise does not care about...

Re: Software Engineering Grads Lack the Skills Startups Need

#96
post #27

Isn't this just observing the fact that college isn't the same as work experience, and only provides the base skill-set needed to enter enter the industry? "When you join a startup, there’s a lot of emphasis on the design of the application, reusability and clean code, and the ability to conduct and undergo code reviews, as well as the ability to think of and build systems that can scale based on users and geography"…

> You should expect to train and mentor ... I've always thought so too. But it doesn't seem like any companies really buy into this any more.

Not if you have to pay them a 150k starting salary!

Re: Software Engineering Grads Lack the Skills Startups Need

#97
post #75
post #27

Isn't this just observing the fact that college isn't the same as work experience, and only provides the base skill-set needed to enter enter the industry? "When you join a startup, there’s a lot of emphasis on the design of the application, reusability and clean code, and the ability to conduct and undergo code reviews, as well as the ability to think of and build systems that can scale based on users and geography"…

Candidly, I would say that college does not even provide the base skill-set. In the Real World(tm) of building software, you will work on systems built over years by other people, many of which have long since left the project or company. The level of integration tests, unit tests, documentation, and automation will depend entirely on the culture of the organization. Databases, low-level I/O, sorting operations, and…

Maybe make them work on open source projects?

Or even the college's own toy systems?

Re: Software Engineering Grads Lack the Skills Startups Need

#98
So startups want to hire kids right out of school for entry level wages and expect them to command the skillset of a Sr. Developer... Makes sense. I too would like to hire a low cost, plentiful resource thats identical in skill level to a more experienced person while paying them less.

Re: Software Engineering Grads Lack the Skills Startups Need

#99
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Candidly, I would say that college does not even provide the base skill-set. In the Real World(tm) of building software, you will work on systems built over years by other people, many of which have long since left the project or company. The level of integration tests, unit tests, documentation, and automation will depend entirely on the culture of the organization. Databases, low-level I/O, sorting operations, and…

Maybe make them work on open source projects? Or even the college's own toy systems?

That's exactly what many UROP schemes are (/were, anecdotally after all). (Undergraduate Research Opportunity Placement, I think. Speaking from UK but I believe it's a pan-European scheme.)

Re: Software Engineering Grads Lack the Skills Startups Need

#100
post #27

Isn't this just observing the fact that college isn't the same as work experience, and only provides the base skill-set needed to enter enter the industry? "When you join a startup, there’s a lot of emphasis on the design of the application, reusability and clean code, and the ability to conduct and undergo code reviews, as well as the ability to think of and build systems that can scale based on users and geography"…

And good! If I'd wanted work experience I'd have gone to work, not university.
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