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Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

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Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#91

Post by xkjkls »

wfbarks wrote: post #80

He (and all the brilliant people at his companies who work so hard) are delivering to humanity, a future where we produce and consume energy sustainably, and are out in space exploring our solar system. Everyone at the companies is there because on some level they believe in this vision. So I (and many Tesla shareholders like me) am willing to look the other way with respect to his fiduciary responsibility. There are…

> willing to look the other way with respect to his fiduciary responsibility

For how long? The companies he is trying to produce need to at some point be financially sustainable in order to meet their mission. And when should we wonder whether Musk is mixing up the mission with his own narcissistic endeavors?

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#92

Post by mannykannot »

jsharf wrote: post #48
danso wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You read this story and think it boils down to "hating on Musk"? Which of the story's numbers or claims about SolarCity finances and production do you believe are distorted or misleading?

Perfectly true facts can still create bias, by selectively focusing attention. None of this needs to be wrong or distorted.

> None of this needs to be wrong or distorted.

The perfect defense against truth in any form.

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#93

Post by srumino »

martythemaniak wrote: post #36

Well, Tesla is one long stream of gambles. You dont get to school an established, global, trillion dollar industry without taking risks. The only notable thing here is that hating on Musk is really popular these days. So the failed gambles (this, falcon doors, the initial overautomation of the Model 3 production, etc) will be highlighted and mocked, while the successful gambles will go unmentioned or incorporated as…

Hating on Musk is popular these days in large part because it is becoming more and more obvious that he is in many ways a con artist. Look at his recent self-driving car promises, for example. I don't believe that he is so misinformed as to actually believe his own self-driving car promises, so I view his over-promising as deliberate deception.

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#94

Post by xkjkls »

dragontamer wrote: post #83
wfbarks wrote: post #80

He (and all the brilliant people at his companies who work so hard) are delivering to humanity, a future where we produce and consume energy sustainably, and are out in space exploring our solar system. Everyone at the companies is there because on some level they believe in this vision. So I (and many Tesla shareholders like me) am willing to look the other way with respect to his fiduciary responsibility. There are…

So was Enron, the company who was creating the future of energy. A future in which we produce and consume energy more sustainably. Enron wasn't tackling space challenges, so I guess there's a slight difference there. Look: fraud is fraud. If someone is lying to the public, it is wrong on that basis alone. Elon Musk could have done everything the same and simply NOT lied about it, and things would have gone far smooth…

Exactly. Elon employs thousands of people. They deserve him to be forthright about their future.

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#95

Post by woodandsteel »

dragontamer wrote: post #83
wfbarks wrote: post #80

He (and all the brilliant people at his companies who work so hard) are delivering to humanity, a future where we produce and consume energy sustainably, and are out in space exploring our solar system. Everyone at the companies is there because on some level they believe in this vision. So I (and many Tesla shareholders like me) am willing to look the other way with respect to his fiduciary responsibility. There are…

So was Enron, the company who was creating the future of energy. A future in which we produce and consume energy more sustainably. Enron wasn't tackling space challenges, so I guess there's a slight difference there. Look: fraud is fraud. If someone is lying to the public, it is wrong on that basis alone. Elon Musk could have done everything the same and simply NOT lied about it, and things would have gone far smooth…

>So was Enron, the company who was creating the future of energy. A future in which we produce and consume energy more sustainably.

What in heavens name are you talking about? Are you really claiming that Enron was in the business of replacing petroleum and natural gas with solar and wind energy?

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#96

Post by lallysingh »

danso wrote: post #16
patagonia wrote: post #11

Damned if Elon does. Damned if he don’t. “An electric vehicle is worthless without electric charging stations.” So Tesla makes a risky move to save one such company that happens to provide an answer to that criticism. People pile on. Predictably.

Is SolarCity an exclusive, or otherwise prominent producer of the solar panels required for Tesla charging stations?

I haven't seen any of those, but solar panels are popular for office parking lots, with chargers for EVs. I don't know if SC ever got into those...

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#97

Post by xkjkls »

standyro wrote: post #65
boyadjian wrote: post #56

Tesla is a Ponzi scheme.

Ponzi schemes don't produce anything of value, like amazing supercars that cost By that same logic, any Y Combinator "unicorn" startup is a ponzi scheme. Overvalued, unrealistic investor expectations. Granted, this SolarCity deal was definitely not in Tesla's best interest... having chatted with a former engineer there who left because of their dysfunction.

Most Ponzi schemes usually do produce something of value for those who cash out early enough. I'm not saying the comparison is apt though.

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#98

Post by btilly »

smacktoward wrote: post #9

This bit seems pretty damning: > As SolarCity struggled to raise money from institutional investors, it began offering individuals a chance to buy what it called Solar Bonds. (“Now you can get paid while driving the solar revolution,” the marketing material said.) But there were few takers—so other parts of the Musk empire took up the slack. According to the shareholder lawsuit, SpaceX acquired $255 million of the bo…

SpaceX's stated goal is "occupy Mars".

Being able to land and deploy solar panels at scale is essential to this goal. And Musk has learned the hard way not to trust third party suppliers that he doesn't control.

SpaceX's aspirational goal is to launch something Mars-wards in the 2022 window to identify where the base will be and have some resources. Then send several vehicles and a few people in 2025 to set up a mission. Primary on that mission is to deploy solar panels, and start making methane+oxygen from CO2, water and energy. This is both for a return trip and for people to breathe. Then in 2027 send the first trip that can make a return flight. (Those dates are set by the fact that the Earth and Mars come into a good conjunction for launching from one to the other every 26 months.)

Musk says "aspirational". I think "crazy". But bump those by 2-5 years and it becomes barely plausible. And the end goal sounds less crazy now than it did 5 years ago. When it sounded less crazy than it was 11 years ago when we all were laughing at him.

And if he succeeds, the Mars colony could come to be worth more to SpaceX than its satellite launch business. By a lot.

Re: Elon Musk Gambled Tesla to Save SolarCity

#100

Post by xkjkls »

Thrymr wrote: post #25
patagonia wrote: post #11

Damned if Elon does. Damned if he don’t. “An electric vehicle is worthless without electric charging stations.” So Tesla makes a risky move to save one such company that happens to provide an answer to that criticism. People pile on. Predictably.

A risky move to save the investors in the company. If SolarCity had gone bankrupt, Tesla could have scooped it up for a bargain price. Elon Musk also happened to be the largest investor and chairman of the board of that company. Bad for Tesla, good for Musk.

He also happened to be one of the largest bondholders as well. And SpaceX was also deeply invested in SolarCity bonds. He could not have been more conflicted in this transaction.
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