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Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

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Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#91

Post by marble-drink »

Scarblac wrote: post #44
vfc1 wrote: post #20

Brasil needs to be heavily sanctioned by the international community, I'm talking Cuba-level stuff if we want to even have a chance at stopping the rise above 2 degrees, we only have 12 years which means that it's already probably too late. More worrying is the rise of populism in the world supported by fake news, ignorance and social media that led to this. How did someone as ignorant as Bolsonaro ever managed to ge…

The US burns by far the most fossil fuel per capita. If any country needs to be sanctioned for causing climate change, it's the US.

Yeah. Even Europeans are shocked at the level of consumption in the US. Driving absolutely everywhere. Air conditioning everywhere keeping the buildings colder than necessary. Heating keeping them warmer than necessary. All plastic packaging is twice as thick and there's twice as much of it. Eating enough food to maintain an overweight/obese body. It's an extremely wasteful society.

If we as a species are going to do anything it has to be all together. We all have to make cuts. Only a tiny number of individuals will voluntarily give up what they have. Why would they? It's just not fair. Many simply can't give it up without losing their jobs etc. We cannot point at Brasil while we are also living far beyond our means.

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#92

Post by RobertoG »

antocv wrote: post #68
fredley wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been highly effective, totally peaceful revolutions too.[0] Violence does not have to be the answer. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_revolution

Violence does not have to be the answer, but in case of environmental destruction, I believe it is. The amount of global environmental destruction a single person or a single corporate entity (see BP oil spill) can do is too much to allow it to happen while hoping they wont. The most effective means is violence, and lots of it.

Are you aware that your comments can be illegal in some jurisdictions? Just saying.

Anyway, my two cents, in my opinion, not enough effort is being done in finding an alternative to livestock farming. We should be pushing for cultured meat(1), it can't arrive fast enough.

It should be cheaper than livestock, with a lot less environmental footprint and eliminate incentives to burnt forest to get pasture land.

A few Manhattan projects level or prize X or whatever in that direction is a no-brainer in my opinion.

1. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultured_meat

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#93

Post by turrini »

doliveira wrote: post #87
doliveira wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so you know guys, this sounds like a typical Bolsonaro voter. Even implying that the multi-hundred-percent increase in deforestation just this year was fabricated by the communist scientists and that Lula somehow has anything to do with it. Or that it's good that Bolsonaro is "reorganizing" the research departments to get rid of the commies that dare to present evidence against his corrupt children or about his…

BTW, the multi-hundred-percent increase was referring to a single month compared to the previous year.

As I said, these burns are being investigated because they look criminal, made on purpose.

You can see in EVERY NASA report/study about Amazon's deforestation, this has been going on for decades[1] and the alarm from the international media has always been mediocre.

And no, I'm not a Bolsonaro voter.

[1] https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/landsat/news/40th-top10-a...

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#94

Post by isostatic »

enibundo wrote: post #10
isostatic wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you propose? UN action to invade Brazil? Germany and Norway have already frozen aid they pay to Brazil

You know how US gathers forces to go fight in iraq etc? Imagine if they did the same thing to help nature. I am not even talking about sending their people, just the mobilisation of politics to act on important subjects. Til we forget the "my lawn, your shit" way of thinking shit will be going south

> You know how US gathers forces to go fight in iraq etc?

So you want to invade Brazil to stop them burning their forest?

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#95

Post by isostatic »

adrianN wrote: post #60
isostatic wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you propose? UN action to invade Brazil? Germany and Norway have already frozen aid they pay to Brazil

Trade sanctions would be a good start. Just don't import any agricultural products from Brazil. Make important tariffs inversely proportional to rain forest area.

And the public will support that?

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#97

Post by KozmoNau7 »

jeanlucas wrote: post #54

Gonna give my 2 cents, bear in mind I'm in Brazil and am involved in projects related to the Amazon forest. My problem with all this are some things: * One problem I have is that during the last years Amazon savagery was going uncontrollable, no one cared, especially BBC, now that a president was elected that is not aligned with their point of view was elected, this became a front news issue. * Assuming this is all t…

I can't speak for all nations, but certainly here in northern Europe, NGOs and others have worked for decades on preservation efforts, in concert with local organizations. Deforestation (especially the Amazon rainforest) has been a high priority for conservation and environmental efforts for decades.

So please don't think that we only started caring about Amazonia because a person with disagreeable politics was elected recently. Deforestation affects everyone, it's a global issue.

However, said person has made a number of statements that are directly threatening towards the future preservation of South American rainforests, and thus the awareness and conservation efforts have increased their visibility, in order to counteract the damage your governments politics will do to the rainforest.

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#98

Post by adrianN »

isostatic wrote: post #95
adrianN wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trade sanctions would be a good start. Just don't import any agricultural products from Brazil. Make important tariffs inversely proportional to rain forest area.

And the public will support that?

I'd support it, I don't know about the public.

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#99

Post by jeanlucas »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #97
jeanlucas wrote: post #54

Gonna give my 2 cents, bear in mind I'm in Brazil and am involved in projects related to the Amazon forest. My problem with all this are some things: * One problem I have is that during the last years Amazon savagery was going uncontrollable, no one cared, especially BBC, now that a president was elected that is not aligned with their point of view was elected, this became a front news issue. * Assuming this is all t…

I can't speak for all nations, but certainly here in northern Europe, NGOs and others have worked for decades on preservation efforts, in concert with local organizations. Deforestation (especially the Amazon rainforest) has been a high priority for conservation and environmental efforts for decades. So please don't think that we only started caring about Amazonia because a person with disagreeable politics was elect…

>So please don't think that we only started caring about Amazonia because a person with disagreeable politics was elected recently. Deforestation affects everyone, it's a global issue.

That is not my point, let me go further, some mining companies from those countries used this political position to lobby themselves and continue to operate in the forest, and they are "untouchable" despite polluting the area (check my sources in the beginning of the thread.

Said that, I think the current president is an idiot for saying lots of those things too. One thing does not justify the other.

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#100

Post by vfc1 »

marble-drink wrote: post #91
Scarblac wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US burns by far the most fossil fuel per capita. If any country needs to be sanctioned for causing climate change, it's the US.

Yeah. Even Europeans are shocked at the level of consumption in the US. Driving absolutely everywhere. Air conditioning everywhere keeping the buildings colder than necessary. Heating keeping them warmer than necessary. All plastic packaging is twice as thick and there's twice as much of it. Eating enough food to maintain an overweight/obese body. It's an extremely wasteful society. If we as a species are going to do…

Two things can be true, the rainforest cutdown needs to be quickly stopped with urgent measures, AND countries like the US and the West in general need to change their meat consumption behavior.

It's not one or the other, both are needed. Most of what is going on in Brasil is due to the West demand for cheap meat, that is what is driving the deforestation.

According to the latest science, we only have 12 years for preventing the planet temperature from rising to 12 degrees

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