The subversive messages hidden in The Wizard of Oz • Hacker News Board

Re: The subversive messages hidden in The Wizard of Oz

#91

Post by wowandflutter » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 12:13 AM UTC

cat199 wrote: post #43

tardo99 wrote: post #17

How does all of this connect with The Dark Side Of The Moon?

Money, get away Get a good job with good pay and you're okay Money, it's a gas Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash New car, caviar, four star daydream Think I'll buy me a football team Money, get back I'm all right Jack keep your hands off of my stack Money, it's a hit Don't give me that do goody good bullshit I'm in the high-fidelity first class traveling set And I think I need a Lear jet Money, it's a c…

Give a listen to “Dub Side of the Moon” by Easy Star All-Stars. Brilliant!

Re: The subversive messages hidden in The Wizard of Oz

#92

Post by Causality1 » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 12:14 AM UTC

benj111 wrote: post #77

Causality1 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And surely what the reader sees in a work is at least as valid as what the author intended. I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you on that one.

In the entire concept, or just the degree of importance? Lets take the example of Farenheit 451, wikipedia [1] suggests an evolution (at least) in Bradbury's own interpretation of his own book: "In a 1956 radio interview, Bradbury said that he wrote Fahrenheit 451 because of his concerns at the time (during the McCarthy era) about the threat of book burning in the United States. In later years, he described the book…

There is a difference between what something is used as and what something was created as. Bradbury wrote F451 because of book burning and later used it as commentary about mass media. That doesn't change its original intention any more than Top Gear using "Jessica" as its theme song makes it any less a tribute to Dickey Betts' infant daughter Jessica. The difference is that the original intention is immutable and exists independent of the context of the consumer's experience. Anything you choose to add onto it is your personal headcanon.

Re: The subversive messages hidden in The Wizard of Oz

#93

Post by danzig13 » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 12:38 AM UTC

One realization I had about the movie: the witch writes a message to Oz to send Dorothy. He immediately tricks her into going there; presumably to her death.

Not a very good man.

Re: The subversive messages hidden in The Wizard of Oz

#94

Post by empath75 » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 12:39 AM UTC

slx26 wrote: post #80

benj111 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the entire concept, or just the degree of importance? Lets take the example of Farenheit 451, wikipedia [1] suggests an evolution (at least) in Bradbury's own interpretation of his own book: "In a 1956 radio interview, Bradbury said that he wrote Fahrenheit 451 because of his concerns at the time (during the McCarthy era) about the threat of book burning in the United States. In later years, he described the book…

I think the most controversial thing you actually said is "valid". That word is very ambiguous, and it's no surprise there's disagreement around it. You can definitely make any interpretation you want. They will be valuable as long as you can take something from them, regardless of the author intent. As you have just shown, even authors might change or make additional interpretations as time passes. The world keeps c…

If a politician tells you what he meant to say in a speech do you take it at face value? People lie to themselves and others all the time about what they have said and why they said it.

The text is the truth. What the author says about it is useful but not the end of the story.

Re: The subversive messages hidden in The Wizard of Oz

#95

Post by jaredlightman » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 12:45 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #41

jaredlightman wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody says it with a z sound, always an s.

They do say it with a /z/ sound. That's why it gets spelled Oz. Compare Aussie, which is also pronounced with a /z/.

I've never heard anyone pronounce 'Australia' as 'Auztralia'. 'Aussie' as 'ozzie' yes, but never Australia.

Re: The subversive messages hidden in The Wizard of Oz

#96

Post by jaredlightman » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 12:46 AM UTC

msclrhd wrote: post #56

jaredlightman wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody says it with a z sound, always an s.

Voicing s as /z/ is widely variational. For example, I voice the s in "us", and "Muslim", while others don't. While I don't voice the s in Australia (/ɒ.ˈstreɪ̯.li.jə/ ~ /ə.ˈstreɪ̯.li.jə/), I do in Oslo (pronouncing it /ˈɒz.loʊ̯/).

Pronouncing 'Oslo' with a z sound doesn't mean 'Australia' is pronounced with a z sound, you're comparing the... you know, I don't care.

Re: The subversive messages hidden in The Wizard of Oz

#97

Post by justinator » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 1:02 AM UTC

not2b wrote: post #24

One think I didn't realize until my daughter and I read the book together: in the book there were two good witches, the witch of the North (the first one Dorothy meets after landing on the witch of the East), and the witch of the South (the one that tells her she can use the shoes to get home). The movie combined the two characters. Then they had to come up with a reason why the good witch didn't immediately tell Dor…

Hmm, that is kinda of strange - especially since there's two evil witches, right? She kills the first one in the begging of Act 2.

Re: The subversive messages hidden in The Wizard of Oz

#98

Post by chasontherobot » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 1:10 AM UTC

nitwit005 wrote: post #21

I suspect for most of this, they were just trying to be funny or weird rather than intending this symbolism/meaning to come across to the audience. One of my economics textbooks contained an explanation of the theory that the yellow brick road was a reference to monetary policy (gold standard), but that theory seems to have been heavily challenged (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_interpretations_of_T...…

Why would you suspect that, when so many of the metaphors are so very blatant? When people create things, they usually put thought into them and meaning doesn't generally happen by accident.

Re: The subversive messages hidden in The Wizard of Oz

#99

Post by ourmandave » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 1:21 AM UTC

krustyburger wrote: post #18

I’ve always meant to go through and read the entire Oz series by Baum. I’ve heard that it’s surprisingly enjoyable from start to finish, given the number of books.

I love the Oz books growing up. I tried to read the 2nd one The Marvelous Land of Oz to my then young daughter after we'd watched the movie, but Old Mombi turned out to be bit to hard core.

Planning to turn Tip into a statue and the threat of beating him black and blue made it a non-starter.

Re: The subversive messages hidden in The Wizard of Oz

#100

Post by joegahona » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 2:08 AM UTC

joshuaheard wrote: post #64

Funny TV Guide description: “Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first person she meets and then teams up with three strangers to kill again.”

I sometimes wonder if those TV Guide descriptions were intentionally funny and deranged like that because they had such little space to summarize an entire movie. The TV Guide description for the 1985 Cher / Eric Stoltz movie MASK was "A teenage boy has a wild mom and a misshapen face."