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WeWork isn’t a tech company; it’s a soap opera

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Re: WeWork isn’t a tech company; it’s a soap opera

#91

Post by stefan_ »

skrebbel wrote: post #78
tedivm wrote: post #7

For the number of engineers they have you'd think they'd have figured out how to build a decent wifi network with some actual security in it. Instead every WeWork has the same password for the wifi (literally a variant on `P@ssw0rd`) and it is super easy to spy on other people's connections. The hilarious thing is they actually built a secure wifi network for their staff, so they clearly recognize the need. They also…

I thought I knew this stuff, but now I'm not so sure anymore. If I take care to only visit https sites, what's the risk in being on an open network or a network with a stupid password? They can see what domains I connect to and when, but that's it, correct? No MITM, no further snooping, right?

A favorite attack vector is various auto-updating software on your computer that downloads updates or update metadata over HTTP. For the longest time Sparkle (an update framework used in Mac apps such as VLC, iTerm, ..) defaulted to HTTP.

Once an attacker is in your network, it's more or less trivial to make that software connect to a malicious update server.

Re: WeWork isn’t a tech company; it’s a soap opera

#92

Post by btown »

rootusrootus wrote: post #9
jakelazaroff wrote: post #2

I wonder when this trend of calling companies "tech companies" — just because they happen to use technology — will end. WeWork clearly is a real estate company; Uber is a taxi company with an app; etc.

I agree on WeWork, but Uber is clearly not a taxi company. They're closer to being a mobile app developer, though that still feels like it falls short of an accurate description.

Uber made the right call in that it's asset-light; they don't long-term lease medallions or have long-term contracts with landlords (any more than a similarly sized technology company would). The We subsidiaries, on the other hand, are dreadfully asset-heavy. They can't just pack up and move out of a city that's underperforming. And as we all know, agile is as much about knowing when/how to stop doing something as it is about moving fast in doing new things. My only sadness is that this is so apparent that it will be immediately reflected in We's price, and there's likely not much opportunity to short these guys.

Re: WeWork isn’t a tech company; it’s a soap opera

#93

Post by cameldrv »

SamWhited wrote: post #67
duxup wrote: post #62

I'm not very knowledgeable about WeWork... but what exactly do they bring to the table that wasn't being done before business wise? They just seem to have office space like any other company that might. Presumably the properties they bought or lease or whatever were somewhat profitable before ... but now WeWork owns them and ... doesn't make money? That seems, bad. I'm skeptical of say Uber's long term sustainability…

As far as I can tell the only benefit they provide over other smaller coworking spaces (most of which are a lot better) is that there are a lot of them. You can get a mebership at a WeWork in Austin, then pop into the one in Tokyo to get some work done while you're visiting. That being said, that's probably not worth the expense, terrible technology, or loudness of weworks for most people.

There are a lot of companies that have small remote Wework offices for sales/support/short term projects. For larger companies that have a bunch of these, Wework has the advantage of being simple and standardized and available in most cities.

Re: WeWork isn’t a tech company; it’s a soap opera

#94

Post by paggle »

duxup wrote: post #62

I'm not very knowledgeable about WeWork... but what exactly do they bring to the table that wasn't being done before business wise? They just seem to have office space like any other company that might. Presumably the properties they bought or lease or whatever were somewhat profitable before ... but now WeWork owns them and ... doesn't make money? That seems, bad. I'm skeptical of say Uber's long term sustainability…

The thing is that the big owners of office space don't want to be bothered with doing anything. They have made vast sums of money for decades by doing as close to nothing as possible -- they just hold the real estate, and rent it out only to people who are willing to sign 5-year leases. In most cases they would rather let it sit empty and appreciate quietly rather than renting it out for less than 5 years.

WeWork has come in and made a relatively tiny business by installing a "front door" to this office space. They allow the property owner to continue to do absolutely nothing, while making the property easier to consume with shorter leases, a common access pattern for WiFi, coffee, etc. and a modern billing system.

The money made by WeWork, to these property owners, approximates to zero. They hold collectively trillions of dollars of real estate and some vegan weirdos want to make $50B off of them? They don't care. They'll just sit around watching their property appreciate without having to care a whit about what's going on inside.

Re: WeWork isn’t a tech company; it’s a soap opera

#95

Post by driverdan »

duxup wrote: post #62

I'm not very knowledgeable about WeWork... but what exactly do they bring to the table that wasn't being done before business wise? They just seem to have office space like any other company that might. Presumably the properties they bought or lease or whatever were somewhat profitable before ... but now WeWork owns them and ... doesn't make money? That seems, bad. I'm skeptical of say Uber's long term sustainability…

They have better marketing.

Re: WeWork isn’t a tech company; it’s a soap opera

#96

Post by driverdan »

This paragraph at the end stood out to me:

> ...The We Company, used to be called WeWork, but it changed its name. The new name was owned, Bloomberg’s Ellen Huet reports, by We Holdings LLC — so WeWork paid $5.9 million to acquire “we” and changed its name last month. We Holdings — you guessed it! — manages stocks and assets owned by… WeWork’s founders.

That's a huge conflict of interest. How would something like that be approved?

Re: WeWork isn’t a tech company; it’s a soap opera

#97

Post by Kalium »

stefan_ wrote: post #91
skrebbel wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought I knew this stuff, but now I'm not so sure anymore. If I take care to only visit https sites, what's the risk in being on an open network or a network with a stupid password? They can see what domains I connect to and when, but that's it, correct? No MITM, no further snooping, right?

A favorite attack vector is various auto-updating software on your computer that downloads updates or update metadata over HTTP. For the longest time Sparkle (an update framework used in Mac apps such as VLC, iTerm, ..) defaulted to HTTP. Once an attacker is in your network, it's more or less trivial to make that software connect to a malicious update server.

There's a limited amount of room to exploit this, this so long as signing is handled correctly. The Debian Apt system worked this way for a long time.

Of course, a lot of code signing systems are mismanaged, so...

Re: WeWork isn’t a tech company; it’s a soap opera

#98

Post by selimthegrim »

Gpetrium wrote: post #65
paxys wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you spy on other people's connections at a WeWork?

Be mindful that if you get caught, it is likely to be a breach of contract with WeWork and may end up involving the authorities.

One could argue it wouldn't...(puts on David Caruso sunglasses)...be WeFi otherwise

Re: WeWork isn’t a tech company; it’s a soap opera

#99

Post by Kalium »

chrischen wrote: post #80
skrebbel wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought I knew this stuff, but now I'm not so sure anymore. If I take care to only visit https sites, what's the risk in being on an open network or a network with a stupid password? They can see what domains I connect to and when, but that's it, correct? No MITM, no further snooping, right?

If you run local dev servers and expose them they could be accessed. Also IP addresses and domain names you visit are visible.

Fortunately for everyone, encrypted SNI is becoming a thing.

DNS queries are probably still visible though, and responses potentially poisoned.

Re: WeWork isn’t a tech company; it’s a soap opera

#100

Post by jdhawk »

SamWhited wrote: post #86
jdhawk wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they should create a network (like Free ATMs) and allow roaming to a limited extent.

I always liked this idea and wish the https://www.atlantacoworking.club/ or similar clubs, collectives, or co-ops would do something similar (instead of it being run by any individual coworking space).

Yeah, follow the Priority Pass/Golf Course Networks/Gym Franchise model.

Pay a little more locally for the ability to Roam in the network.

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