Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades • Hacker News Board

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#91

Post by jki275 » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 10:22 AM UTC

p_l wrote: post #88

jki275 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The main function of the JSF is situational awareness. The F22 doesn't even have a functional data link yet. JSF has all of it built in from the beginning. Everything you add to an airframe costs millions of dollars, and there's no point in doing it. STOVL is an important part of the JSF program. The F22 isn't capable of doing STOVL or carrier operations, you don't refit a non-CVN capable aircraft for carrier ope…

F-22 has datalinks, including the one datalink that appears to be ultimately the only one really used - Link-16. F-35's MADL wasn't added to F-22 because Air Force deemed it "not ready to use" and cited maturity problems with the whole stack. A lot of JSF sensors are to patch over its horrible pilot situational awareness, mostly a legacy of the STOVL variant (which is responsible for most issues) and which exists onl…

All incorrect.

The JSF was designed around sensor fusion to give the pilot situational awareness like no other aircraft.

Stovl has been used by the USMC in every conflict since they got the Harrier. They flew off of highways in OIF. Japan hasn’t purchased the B model yet, they likely will. But the B model has doubled our carrier force by giving the ARG strike capability.

You do not “refit” a non naval aircraft for carrier duty. The f18 was designed as a carrier aircraft from the ground up, and there was never a carrier variant of an F22 except in some people’s fantasies.

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#92

Post by burfog » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 10:27 AM UTC

jki275 wrote: post #87

ohaideredevs wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to get into the weeds here, but what part of EODAS can't be added by literally putting a thermal camera (from the F-35 program) in several places on the F-22 and running wiring to it? I completely understand that it interfaces with the helmet. I also know that it took ages for the F-22 to get a simple FLIR built in, but if even a fraction of the F-35 resources were directed at the F-22, this would all be…

No. The main function of the JSF is situational awareness. The F22 doesn't even have a functional data link yet. JSF has all of it built in from the beginning. Everything you add to an airframe costs millions of dollars, and there's no point in doing it. STOVL is an important part of the JSF program. The F22 isn't capable of doing STOVL or carrier operations, you don't refit a non-CVN capable aircraft for carrier ope…

STOVL can certainly be retrofitted the same way lots of things are: as an external pod.

Guide the pilot into a suitable position above the landing area. (with visual indicators, much like those for a bombing run) Once the plane is in the right spot, a computer finishes the job with full automation. The aircraft is stalled. The pods fire rockets. The aircraft is guided down and brought to a stop.

This retrofit would be particularly sensible for the F-15, which normally carries conformal fuel tanks. That would be a fine place to install the retrofit.

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#93

Post by burfog » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 10:39 AM UTC

consumer451 wrote: post #36

ohaideredevs wrote: post #7

"The Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor is one of the world’s premier fighter jets, thanks to its unique combination of stealth, speed, agility, and situational awareness." A huge understatement. It's the only true 5th gen that's tailored for performance, rather than cost savings (ala the F-35). The others are completely unproven (Chinese) or both unproven and in extremely limited quantities, while not providing true stealt…

I’m not a huge fan of obscene military spending, but the cancellation[0] of F-22 production must be one of the most boneheaded decisions I’ve seen in US military procurement. I must add the caveat that I have no security clearance so there may be other factors. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor > Service officials had originally planned to buy a total of 750 ATFs. In 2009, the program was…

Obama really really wanted to kill the F-22.

I note that the F-22 was primarily produced in Georgia. That usually isn't a swing state and it doesn't have a lot of representatives in the US House of Representatives.

The F-35 is produced in nearly every state, certainly including all the swing states. This is terribly inefficient, but probably kept the F-35 from being cancelled.

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#94

Post by jki275 » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 12:33 PM UTC

burfog wrote: post #92

jki275 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The main function of the JSF is situational awareness. The F22 doesn't even have a functional data link yet. JSF has all of it built in from the beginning. Everything you add to an airframe costs millions of dollars, and there's no point in doing it. STOVL is an important part of the JSF program. The F22 isn't capable of doing STOVL or carrier operations, you don't refit a non-CVN capable aircraft for carrier ope…

STOVL can certainly be retrofitted the same way lots of things are: as an external pod. Guide the pilot into a suitable position above the landing area. (with visual indicators, much like those for a bombing run) Once the plane is in the right spot, a computer finishes the job with full automation. The aircraft is stalled. The pods fire rockets. The aircraft is guided down and brought to a stop. This retrofit would b…

LOL.

Sounds like a great thing for a scifi novel, but not useful to do something like that in real life.

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#95

Post by smileysteve » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 3:44 PM UTC

foobarrio wrote: post #78

vemv wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I hadn't heard of tech debt being something so subjective/invisible that it just creeps in and you have to discover it. (I'm open to be convinced) Generally I have witnessed tech debt as something pretty blatant and obvious - generally it's detected in the code review process. Sometimes it's big faults being introduced, more often it's small faults leading to 'death by a thousand cuts'. My current policy…

One of the reasons why I sometimes don't like the term "tech debt" is because you can take it on without knowing it. This is not true for financial debt. When you borrow money, even if you're not tracking it, the lender is 100% tracking the debt. If you are in a team that discourages upgrading build systems, code reviews, code quality, testing etc there isn't really anyone that can point to instances where tech debt…

> This is not true for financial debt.

It is however true with assets; The housing crisis provides a great example; housing is an asset when it is always appreciating; however, if it starts depreciating (2008), it quickly became a liability.

This translates nicely to product. Each feature is an asset for selling; until it is found to have liabilities (pii data storage, inability to scale), then the feature either needs work again (requiring reinvestment) or removed (sold).

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#96

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 4:07 PM UTC

burfog wrote: post #92

jki275 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The main function of the JSF is situational awareness. The F22 doesn't even have a functional data link yet. JSF has all of it built in from the beginning. Everything you add to an airframe costs millions of dollars, and there's no point in doing it. STOVL is an important part of the JSF program. The F22 isn't capable of doing STOVL or carrier operations, you don't refit a non-CVN capable aircraft for carrier ope…

STOVL can certainly be retrofitted the same way lots of things are: as an external pod. Guide the pilot into a suitable position above the landing area. (with visual indicators, much like those for a bombing run) Once the plane is in the right spot, a computer finishes the job with full automation. The aircraft is stalled. The pods fire rockets. The aircraft is guided down and brought to a stop. This retrofit would b…

[deleted]

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#97

Post by ohaideredevs » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 4:08 PM UTC

jki275 wrote: post #94

burfog wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

STOVL can certainly be retrofitted the same way lots of things are: as an external pod. Guide the pilot into a suitable position above the landing area. (with visual indicators, much like those for a bombing run) Once the plane is in the right spot, a computer finishes the job with full automation. The aircraft is stalled. The pods fire rockets. The aircraft is guided down and brought to a stop. This retrofit would b…

LOL. Sounds like a great thing for a scifi novel, but not useful to do something like that in real life.

It's been done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JATO The primary requirement for a carrier jet is two engines, decent thrust, and enough body rigidity to take landings. The F-22 has all that. The MIG-29 had less, and had a carrier version. Same with the SU-27.

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#98

Post by jki275 » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 7:05 PM UTC

ohaideredevs wrote: post #97

jki275 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL. Sounds like a great thing for a scifi novel, but not useful to do something like that in real life.

It's been done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JATO The primary requirement for a carrier jet is two engines, decent thrust, and enough body rigidity to take landings. The F-22 has all that. The MIG-29 had less, and had a carrier version. Same with the SU-27.

JATO is for takeoff, thrust in the aft direction is not the same as trying to rocket assist a landing. Completely different. It's also extremely hard on airframes.

The idea is not feasible.

Also your list of "carrier aircraft requirements" is incorrect, the JSF is a single engine aircraft, and landing gear is a major requirement of a carrier aircraft. The F22 is not a naval aircraft, was not designed to be, and never will be.

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#99

Post by burfog » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 11:19 PM UTC

jki275 wrote: post #98

ohaideredevs wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JATO The primary requirement for a carrier jet is two engines, decent thrust, and enough body rigidity to take landings. The F-22 has all that. The MIG-29 had less, and had a carrier version. Same with the SU-27.

JATO is for takeoff, thrust in the aft direction is not the same as trying to rocket assist a landing. Completely different. It's also extremely hard on airframes. The idea is not feasible. Also your list of "carrier aircraft requirements" is incorrect, the JSF is a single engine aircraft, and landing gear is a major requirement of a carrier aircraft. The F22 is not a naval aircraft, was not designed to be, and never…

He is correct about carrier aircraft requirements. The navy was forced to accept the JSF.

As produced, the F-22 is obviously not a naval aircraft. The tail hook is single-use, the landing gear is not reinforced, and the more modern stuff for carrier approach is probably not installed. All of that would be easy to change, and in fact a carrier version was proposed.

Re: Lockheed Martin Taps Red Hat to Accelerate F-22 Raptor Upgrades

#100

Post by burfog » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 11:22 PM UTC

jki275 wrote: post #94

burfog wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

STOVL can certainly be retrofitted the same way lots of things are: as an external pod. Guide the pilot into a suitable position above the landing area. (with visual indicators, much like those for a bombing run) Once the plane is in the right spot, a computer finishes the job with full automation. The aircraft is stalled. The pods fire rockets. The aircraft is guided down and brought to a stop. This retrofit would b…

LOL. Sounds like a great thing for a scifi novel, but not useful to do something like that in real life.

This was said about recovering orbital rocket boosters, yet now SpaceX does it most of the time.

Doing that for fighter jets is actually much easier. The speeds are much slower and the distance is much lower.