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You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

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Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#91

Post by mikl »

yepthatsreality wrote: post #58
eeeeeeeeeeeee wrote: post #11

Disagree. Every system has problems. Look at what happened with Zoom — unrestricted access to your entire user account on MacOS, for them to do whatever they want. Normal people should not have to even think about a virus or malware scanner on their system. I like where Apple is going and I like the iOS model. Most of all, I know that people like my parents will be better protected from malware and spyware and crypto…

Except this ignores the fact that there has been spyware and malware on Apple's store. Which perhaps gets removed eventually, but what about services that sell your data to the highest bidder without Apple's knowledge? Apple's offered security is relative to their definition of security. All it takes is your parents to install a malicious app that passed the app review. Deferring to Apple as some sort of security bab…

The spy/malware problem on the App Store is tiny in comparison to what you see on almost any other platform. Even if something nasty slips through review, it's access to the iOS device is very limited and gated through permission pop-ups.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#93

Post by inscionent »

alunchbox wrote: post #40
gchokov wrote: post #2

I am happy buying stuff from the iOS store. It's convenient, quick and easy. No objection as an end user.

Your views don't change even after learning that most of your purchases that are to support developers are being skimmed by 30% ? (similar situation to Steam but at least their development tools are nearly bug free, and really help development) The problem here is that they also charge 100 or $50 just to start developing on their platform...

skim: informal, steal or embezzle

This isn't skimming. This is a business agreement. The developer should understand the business agreements they enter into.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#94

Post by Crinus »

throwawaycert wrote: post #33
nothis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Maybe Apple intends to change that some day, but that's speculation, not reality. I'd say it's pretty obvious that this is a desired outcome on Apple's part. You can either wait until it's too late or bring it up before it's happening.

The scenario you propose would eliminate the ability to develop apps for iOS. Are you suggesting Apple is actively trying to kill the iOS app store?

Why would eliminate the ability to develop apps for the iOS? You could be able to download a development environment "app" from the Mac App Store just like now. You'd be a bit more confined inside the environment itself, but there is nothing that would prevent developing applications with Apple's own tools while disallowing installing anything outside of MAS.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#95

Post by cgriswald »

banachtarski wrote: post #49
nerdjon wrote: post #9

>On no other platform would we accept a scenario where the owner of that platform dictated not only the tools developers can use, but restricted the ways they talk about their products and pricing. We would call it unfair, monopolistic, and overbearing. But on our smartphones, it’s just a fact of life. I am pretty sure game consoles have been doing this basically since their existence. None of them allow you to make…

What? I'm a console developer. I can use any PC I want to deploy software to the console. I can use Intel, AMD, or any other x86 compatible chip (mainly because I don't want to deal with the headache of cross compiling). I can even choose the compiler I use and the IDE. Sure the debuggers they ship run on Windows, but that's just the tools they know how to write, and they are damn good tools. iOS in comparison is dow…

The people down-voting and arguing with you are missing the point entirely.[0]

Yes, console makers have monopoly stores on their platforms. Even if you include physical copies, because of the licensing platforms, it's still the same basic idea. (They're also criticized by some for these reasons.)

The difference is that those platforms are not using those quasi-monopolies as leverage to force developers to use their tools. Could they? Yes. But you can't use the capability someone has to do something to defend Apple actually doing the thing.

[0] - The down-voters seem only to disagree with you. That's not what a down-vote is for, and voting this way actively harms the discussion.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#96

Post by dangus »

mattnewton wrote: post #42
dangus wrote: post #29

I had a while ago calculated the actual download cost with S3's pricing on what each ~100MB Spotify update would cost if it was self hosted. Assuming each paid and free Spotify customer on the iOS platform updated the app was something to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars depending on how you estimate the marketshare of iOS for Spotify versus their other platforms. What the App Store provides is not valueless,…

> Is it monopolistic? By definition, no, because Android is the #1 smartphone platform in the world. This depends on how you describe the market. Is the market smartphone users or is it iOS apps? If you are in the market to buy an iOS app, you must go through apple, which would suggest it is a monopoly. IANAL but this has precedence - think of the “windows browser market” that Microsoft was raked over the coals about…

Microsoft was raked over the coals because they actually possessed a pure monopoly.

In 2002 Internet Explorer had a 96.6% browser marketshare. [1]

In 1999 Microsoft Windows made up around 95% of desktop operating systems in use. [2]

In terms of antitrust law, IANAL but, I think you'd have a harder time convincing a court that the App Store is a monopoly of any sort. I don't think you can just break down markets into sections like that and claim they have a monopoly on that section.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#On...

[2] https://money.cnn.com/1999/01/19/technology/microsoft/

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#97

Post by echelon »

dangus wrote: post #31
nerdjon wrote: post #9

>On no other platform would we accept a scenario where the owner of that platform dictated not only the tools developers can use, but restricted the ways they talk about their products and pricing. We would call it unfair, monopolistic, and overbearing. But on our smartphones, it’s just a fact of life. I am pretty sure game consoles have been doing this basically since their existence. None of them allow you to make…

Right, the author just forgot about every game console existing.

You can write a game and all at once target Xbox, Playstation, Switch, PC, MacOS, and Linux. You can do physical releases. You can upload your game anywhere, even provide it for distribution on your own website. Everyone has choice in the equation.

App stores are vampiric parasites and need to be dismantled. Either that, or these companies need their phone monopolies taken away.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#98

Post by 693471 »

vbezhenar wrote: post #43
nerdjon wrote: post #9

>On no other platform would we accept a scenario where the owner of that platform dictated not only the tools developers can use, but restricted the ways they talk about their products and pricing. We would call it unfair, monopolistic, and overbearing. But on our smartphones, it’s just a fact of life. I am pretty sure game consoles have been doing this basically since their existence. None of them allow you to make…

> I don't want to be forced to trust every company with my credit card information This problem is solved with Paypal.

Why would anyone trust PayPal? They still owe me $900 from 2005 when I was the victim of a reverse scam. (Buyer claimed i scammed and never sent it; they refused to investigate or accept my tracking info as proof)

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#99

Post by yepthatsreality »

eeeeeeeeeeeee wrote: post #70
yepthatsreality wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this ignores the fact that there has been spyware and malware on Apple's store. Which perhaps gets removed eventually, but what about services that sell your data to the highest bidder without Apple's knowledge? Apple's offered security is relative to their definition of security. All it takes is your parents to install a malicious app that passed the app review. Deferring to Apple as some sort of security bab…

Like I said, no system is perfect. But let’s be real — which OS model is likely to better secure them and limit the damage? It’s objectively clear it’s iOS. iCloud backups make recovering from the damage much easier too. Backing up MacOS or Windows is still not easy. Even if they installed a malicious app on iOS, the damage is still limited because of the security model of iOS. I definitely understand the concern of…

> It’s why Facebook wins, and it’s why closed systems continue to crush open ones.

There's a bit too much going on in your response, so...I greatly disagree on many levels and I feel this statement is a good lead as to why.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#100

Post by securityfreak »

I believe Apple users choose the Apple ecosystem specifically because they value the protection the App Store provides. I can't even imagine the nightmare if every app was allowed to redirect me to their website, register there and enter payment information before I can start using their app. This system would be abused as hell. The in-app purchases are transparent (I can review all my transaction in one single place) and I can approve my child's purchases remotely.

Also I am sure if the roles were switched, Spotify would no way in hell allow Apple Music to be priced the same way on their App Store for their ecosystem users. It's hypocrisy.

I agree 30% might be too much, but it's their App Store, their users, their infrastructure, their public trust at stake, their rules.

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