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Latest 737 Max Fault That Alarmed Test Pilots Rooted in Software

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Re: Latest 737 Max Fault That Alarmed Test Pilots Rooted in Software

#91

Post by mtgx »

taneq wrote: post #54
aurelwu wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like adding a heuristic which works most of the time which is something I can see myself doing to cover some pathfinding issue in a game where it's sufficient if it works 99,9% of the time or when working on a simulation where I can look on the result data afterwards and can see if something looks highly unusual despite the heuristic and improve it iteratively - a luxury you don't get with air planes, at…

Yeah, it’s a nice way of saying “this is a hack”.

Move fast and kill things. At least that seems to be the motto of self-driving carmakers, too.

Re: Latest 737 Max Fault That Alarmed Test Pilots Rooted in Software

#92

Post by zbentley »

std_throwaway wrote: post #44
throwaway082729 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heard of a private GitHub?

Yes, for those who need to hide their code from public scrunity.

...or you work on closed source software in your company's private GitHub.

Re: Latest 737 Max Fault That Alarmed Test Pilots Rooted in Software

#93

Post by s_T_e_v_o »

One thing I learned many years ago, you can solve infrastructure problems with software. If prior jets have multiple sensors and the new jet has one sensor, then software isn't going to help in this situation. Gyros worked back in 1911. why not use one to back up the failed sensor? seems like a simple fix that could be mounted anywhere on the plane.

Re: Latest 737 Max Fault That Alarmed Test Pilots Rooted in Software

#94

Post by std_throwaway »

zbentley wrote: post #92
std_throwaway wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, for those who need to hide their code from public scrunity.

...or you work on closed source software in your company's private GitHub.

Closed source software should not be used in safety critical systems that affect the general public.

Re: Latest 737 Max Fault That Alarmed Test Pilots Rooted in Software

#95

Post by ninth_ant »

anticristi wrote: post #58

Before upgrading to the latest Ubuntu, I like to wait for a few months until my friends confirm that it's for the better. I guess I would do the same for the MAX. I can't imagine what it must be like to be one of the first pilots to fly the MAX once the grounding is lifted. Can pilots refuse to fly a specific plane "for a few months, 'cause I have kids waiting for me home"?

There were almost 400 delivered by the time it was grounded, some of them in service since 2017. Yes there were two high profile failures and this failure rate is extremely out of the norm by the very stringent standards of aviation — but these are not sudden-unavoidable-death machines that gets sensationalized.

Re: Latest 737 Max Fault That Alarmed Test Pilots Rooted in Software

#96

Post by iguy »

bboreham wrote: post #80
jacobush wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much of U.K. which is incredible and depressing at the same time. Completely pummelled by war, (receiving no aid like West Germany did) they managed to, in 1949, release a Space Age passenger commercial airliner, defining the genre. It looks modern even today. Yet, fumbled the ball. They also had a space program, closed it down after their first satellite, which was a success. Concorde! (With France.) It…

“The largest recipient of Marshall Plan money was the United Kingdom (receiving about 26% of the total), followed by France (18%) and West Germany (11%).” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

Since others may be curious, what the UK received under the Marshall Plan looks to be about 3x what they paid back under Lend-Lease. (Which in turn was maybe 10% of the cost of what was shipped.)

Re: Latest 737 Max Fault That Alarmed Test Pilots Rooted in Software

#98

Post by marcyb5st »

onli wrote: post #73
nocturnial wrote: post #14

I really can't help to think that the design and production of this plane was rushed. They used a one sensor input to MCAS because the FAA wouldn't certify a two sensor input without requiring a level D certification which meant sim training for pilots. This latest revelation in the article only strengthens my belief it was rushed and possibly to the point that it was irresponsible.

That's seriously overdiplomatic. The plane was rushed and it was constructed very badly. It was absolutely irresponsible to bring it into service, it's not a question anymore. It's a plane that crashes itself automatically into the ground and that killed over 300 people.

Agreed. However, the worst part is the FAA. Specifically, what baffles me is the massive hand-wave they did on this considering it is one of their mandates to check flight-worthiness of Airplanes/Airlines.

I hope all the other agencies worldwide will double check all the prior certifications issued by the FAA, because all their credibility is gone. Especially considering the US was the one the last countries to ground the 737 MAX.

I wonder what happened there. Bribes? Favors? Lobbying and ties? All of the above?

Re: Latest 737 Max Fault That Alarmed Test Pilots Rooted in Software

#99

Post by king_magic »

std_throwaway wrote: post #94
zbentley wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...or you work on closed source software in your company's private GitHub.

Closed source software should not be used in safety critical systems that affect the general public.

Most software engineers aren’t qualified to have an opinion about the quality of proprietary safety critical software systems that also happen to run against proprietary hardware.

So unless you’ve found an economical way to develop an open source jetliner... honestly, what would be the point of open sourcing safety critical systems to the general public?

I’m not at all saying it should be closed off from external safety inspectors or regulators or anything like that, but I’m not really seeing the value of opening the software up to the general public.

Re: Latest 737 Max Fault That Alarmed Test Pilots Rooted in Software

#100

Post by NeedMoreTea »

bboreham wrote: post #80
jacobush wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much of U.K. which is incredible and depressing at the same time. Completely pummelled by war, (receiving no aid like West Germany did) they managed to, in 1949, release a Space Age passenger commercial airliner, defining the genre. It looks modern even today. Yet, fumbled the ball. They also had a space program, closed it down after their first satellite, which was a success. Concorde! (With France.) It…

“The largest recipient of Marshall Plan money was the United Kingdom (receiving about 26% of the total), followed by France (18%) and West Germany (11%).” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

Interesting factoids:

Marshall plan replaced and thankfully rejected the previous Morgenthau plan - which would have explicitly ruled out any aid to Germany, and actually further destroyed the country.

In a fine bit of statesmanship Marshall plan aid was offered to the Soviets, who rejected it. It was offered in fairness, but in the certain knowledge Stalin would refuse. It would never have got through Congress anyway. :)

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