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Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

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Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#91

Post by k__ »

odiroot wrote: post #68
paganel wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state of the German IT industry outside of a few select places (Berlin, mostly) is what makes me very pessimistic about the future of its car industry. They (meaning the big 3: VW, BMW and Mercedes) apparently still think that building the best engines/transmissions and being the best at putting them all together is all it takes in order to make a modern car, unfortunately I think EVs will be more about software…

> The state of the German IT industry outside of a few select places (Berlin, mostly) If Berlin IT industry is a golden standard I'm really not very hopeful for Germany.

I started freelancing in 2014 and somehow ended up only working for US companies after 4 years.

Even german startups feel to be a few years behind.

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#92

Post by raverbashing »

colinmhayes wrote: post #86
adrianN wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rents are a lot cheaper in Berlin. You don't need a car either. It's also a nicer city in general, I feel a lot safer in Berlin than in San Francisco.

You don't need to live in the valley. I make twice that much in Chicago which is very comparable to Berlin price wise.

And how does salaries (and work environment) in Chicago compare to SF/Berlin?

(Weather is probably comparable to Berlin though)

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#93

Post by ascar »

odiroot wrote: post #72
kayoone wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Salaries of 70-90k EUR for Senior devs in Berlin are absolutely achievable and combined with the quite low cost of living in Berlin you probably have more fun money than anywhere in Europe as a developer.

Anything above high 60's is really a pipe dream in this current market.

Hard truth: It also heavily depends on how good you are. The salaries talked about are usually the top 10% maybe 20%. Like people throwing around Facebook and Amazon salaries. They only employ a small percentage of devs.

That leaves at least 80% that earn considerably less and 50% that earn below the mean.

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#94

Post by WouterZ »

noir_lord wrote: post #61
lnsru wrote: post #10

As of today we still use shared network drives for everything in major German company. We don’t use slack/irc/Skype/zoom/whatever. Phone calls and conferences(!) from the middle of open office is normal. Asana/Trello/Jira are not known at all. GitHub is paid for, but never used. I am single weirdo in multi department project using github ticket system. The code with prefix is copied for colleagues to project’s shared…

England checking in, that all sounds strangely familiar even down to the network shares. Honestly security at this point is a myth, we can't close the door after the horse bolted as the barn is currently on fire and the horse has been gone so long it's settled down and raised a family.

Thanks for checking in England

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#95

Post by ahartmetz »

est31 wrote: post #27
mschuster91 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> treating IT like a cost center that has to be outsourced to wherever is cheaper As if outsourcing wasn't a common trend across Western companies "thanks" to globalization and the utter dominance of US-american neoliberalism. > and companies' tradition of rewarding management incompetence over technical competence Again, quite common - the "old" Soziale Marktwirtschaft moguls with decades-long visions would not let…

I'm a German soon to be CS graduate and right now my favourites are SV and London. I'll try to get into a company that can sponsor L1 visa for SV first and then I'll try London. The German job market is precisely as described by GP: you are competing all the time with remote people in countries with much smaller cost of living and the wages are super low compared to aforementioned places. Germany has great schools, a…

From what I've seen, salary vs cost of living is rather crap in London because London is very, very expensive. SV makes sense if that is what you want to do.

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#96

Post by ahartmetz »

sveme wrote: post #54
lnsru wrote: post #10

As of today we still use shared network drives for everything in major German company. We don’t use slack/irc/Skype/zoom/whatever. Phone calls and conferences(!) from the middle of open office is normal. Asana/Trello/Jira are not known at all. GitHub is paid for, but never used. I am single weirdo in multi department project using github ticket system. The code with prefix is copied for colleagues to project’s shared…

In my major German company, mostly living off hardware, we seem to be at least living with a decent stack (though mostly using the MS copycats of Slack, Jira and Github). Interesting that it seems to be different at other companies. However, describing the automotive companies of being unaware of the need for more software devs is simply false - living in Munich, all the companies are doing is investing in software d…

German car companies have absolutely recognized their problem with software several years ago (from what I can see 5-10 years ago), but they are still varying levels of bad at implementing the solution. One of the things they are doing is starting daughter companies that only do software... but still get infected by the awful development and management culture of the parent.

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#97

Post by paganel »

trevyn wrote: post #88
paganel wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own a basically German-engineered car (the car badge itself is Spanish), and one of its main advantages is that it is old enough (well, by today's standards, the car is from 2007) that is not sophisticated enough in order to include that much electronics and software. As such I'm perfectly confident to hop right in and drive 400-500 miles, heck, I've driven almost 3000 miles a couple of summers ago all the way to S…

You wouldn't feel confident driving 400 miles in a 2019 German car because of software? What do you envision going wrong?

> you wouldn't feel confident driving 400 miles in a 2019 German car because of software?

Because of software and electronics combined, yes.

> What do you envision going wrong?

One of my closest friends purchased a VW Tiguan last year and not two weeks into his ownership the car left him stranded at the side of the read because of a coolant hose or something similar. If VW cannot make a simple hose not break after only two weeks in a 30,000 euros car I cannot trust their software verification processes and I'm not willing to spend that much money in order to find out. In other words, if they cannot properly verify a simple hose I cannot trust them with properly verifying software.

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#98

Post by olivermarks »

trevyn wrote: post #88
paganel wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own a basically German-engineered car (the car badge itself is Spanish), and one of its main advantages is that it is old enough (well, by today's standards, the car is from 2007) that is not sophisticated enough in order to include that much electronics and software. As such I'm perfectly confident to hop right in and drive 400-500 miles, heck, I've driven almost 3000 miles a couple of summers ago all the way to S…

You wouldn't feel confident driving 400 miles in a 2019 German car because of software? What do you envision going wrong?

The challenge is troubleshooting at the roadside. Older vehicles have comprehensible shop manuals and systems, but most cars in the last 10 years have little guidance on owner repair, which is often formally discouraged. A 2019 car is unlikely to have systems wear and tear or short circuit issues but they are so complex if something does fail you are unlikely to be able to do anything about it

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#99

Post by hobofan »

odiroot wrote: post #90
hobofan wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are looking at SMBs that treat you as a "IT guy", sure. If you are looking at more "modern" tech companies in Berlin or well-funded startups it's definitely possible. The last 3 job offers I had were in the 90-100k range, for a "senior" position (~6 years of experience) in Berlin.

This is definitely an outlier and not the norm. Look at Glassdoor and LinkedIn. Maybe Zalando offers more but few would want to work there.

Just from the top of my head, you could probably earn well at: Zalando, HERE, Mozilla, EyeEm, Blacklane, MongoDB, Zeitgold, Talon.one, Infarm (just raised a juicy funding round) + a boatload of blockchain startups

On top of that, a lot of the bigger SV startups have satellite offices in Berlin.

Re: Winnti: Hackers attacking the heart of German industry

#100

Post by olivermarks »

paganel wrote: post #97
trevyn wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn't feel confident driving 400 miles in a 2019 German car because of software? What do you envision going wrong?

> you wouldn't feel confident driving 400 miles in a 2019 German car because of software? Because of software and electronics combined, yes. > What do you envision going wrong? One of my closest friends purchased a VW Tiguan last year and not two weeks into his ownership the car left him stranded at the side of the read because of a coolant hose or something similar. If VW cannot make a simple hose not break after on…

On new cars if a component is faulty they fail quickly. I had a tire blow out on a brand new car I was driving home from the dealers in the UK once. Tires and hoses are easy, it's the opaque systems that are a nightmare to troubleshoot, given lack of documentation and manufacturer rules forbidding removing plastic engine covers etc
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