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Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

theguardian.com

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Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#91

Post by 52-6F-62 »

gregfjohnson wrote: post #21

Tangentially related: I just turned 65, and am continuing to immensely enjoy programming. Current job involves embedded digital signal processing in medical devices. My family came up with a new name for my category of programmers: the gerihacktric demographic.. :-) I have interviewed with Alphabet twice, no offers. One time apparently it was a close call.. It would be fun to be the all-time record holder for oldest…

Excellent! Any resource suggestions for a digital signal processing novice? More interested on the musical end, but also in general.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#93

Post by rikroots »

taurath wrote: post #77
rikroots wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not my experience. I've learned how to tweak my resume to a job spec while at the same time not giving an impression of my age (getting a degree with the Open University in my 40s really helps with that). It's at the face to face interview stage that the wheels tend to fall off my cart - nothing I could prove as 'ageist' behaviour, more like they're disappointed in me (or discounting me) before we sit down to chat? "…

To some extent it could also be that you’re presenting as young? FWIW - My only concern with older folks is that they’re either jaded, stuck in their ways technologically, or obstinate towards being managed by people younger than them. Strong opinions held strongly is a net negative. This isn’t everyone or even a majority, but it’s quite a few.

> they’re either jaded, stuck in their ways technologically, or obstinate towards being managed by people younger than them

Again, (mostly) stereotyping:

"jaded" - I'd argue this hits a lot of front end developers after about 5 years. How many new frameworks have there been in the last 5 years? There comes a point when any sane person will look at the newest "killer" framework and decide to wait a couple of years before investing time in learning it, just in case next year's "killer" framework turns out to be more fun to learn.

"stuck in their ways" - this is more a personality thing, I think. Most people will find their comfort zone pretty quickly, and then get grumpy when asked/required to venture outside of it. Risk aversion and/or laziness doesn't, in my view, increase significantly with age.

"obstinate towards being managed" - this one is a problem that everyone has to face as they grow older. The sad fact (from what I've seen in my age group) is that some people just cannot come to terms with the ageing process, that there's going to be younger people who are better placed to do a team-leader/manager job than they are (because: longer experience in the industry). But that is something that can be worked on - the important thing is to demonstrate a willingness to at least give it a go, offer support to the younger manager (be a wise owl, not an old owl), and be an excellent team player. At least that's my attitude.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#94

Post by ghaff »

pcwalton wrote: post #78
ghaff wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the right return value of course but ignoring everything else doesn’t actually meet the requirements of the question. Of course in a live situation you can ask if that’s ok or if they actually want useless bit twiddling.

But there's no such thing, semantically, as "leaving zero bits alone". The value 0 has no notion of "where it came from". The expression "x & 0" is semantically equivalent to the expression "0", in that they represent the same value. In my view, the fact that the question even lends itself to philosophical debate like this just illustrates how exceptionally bad the question is, even by Google standards.

Oh I don’t disagree. Literally going through bit by bit and zeroing any bit not equal to zero would be grossly inefficient especially if you know it’s unnecessary.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#95

Post by rikroots »

solotronics wrote: post #92

Will anything happen if you lie about your age on an application? I don't see how your age, race, or sex should be taken into consideration unless you are doing a job that requires strenous physical labor.

In the UK it is against the law to ask people for their age on an application form (eg: no date of birth field). Also against the law to ask questions at interview which can be interpreted as ageist. The only exceptions are for legislated occupations such as joining the armed forces.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#96

Post by rifung »

moflome wrote: post #40
gregfjohnson wrote: post #21

Tangentially related: I just turned 65, and am continuing to immensely enjoy programming. Current job involves embedded digital signal processing in medical devices. My family came up with a new name for my category of programmers: the gerihacktric demographic.. :-) I have interviewed with Alphabet twice, no offers. One time apparently it was a close call.. It would be fun to be the all-time record holder for oldest…

Love it. Have found that the closer you get to hardware groups at any of the FAANG's, the higher the average age. Met several happily employed grandparents in the groups, adding value and telling the best stories.

> Have found that the closer you get to hardware groups at any of the FAANG's, the higher the average age.

Hm that makes sense given the relative infancy of the software industry.

Not to mention that enrollment in CS programs has been increasing so the talent pool is skewed towards younger people

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#97

Post by pradn »

segmondy wrote: post #48
gregfjohnson wrote: post #21

Tangentially related: I just turned 65, and am continuing to immensely enjoy programming. Current job involves embedded digital signal processing in medical devices. My family came up with a new name for my category of programmers: the gerihacktric demographic.. :-) I have interviewed with Alphabet twice, no offers. One time apparently it was a close call.. It would be fun to be the all-time record holder for oldest…

Almost every rejected hire is apparently a "close call" ;-)

That could be true, statistically, if the initial screening interviews are high-signal.

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#98

Post by redwards510 »

mcguire wrote: post #58

" Instead, the company argues that the members of the class-action suit failed to demonstrate technical prowess... " Yes, it's a widely known fact that people over the age of 27 lose a year's worth of "technical prowess" for every year they live. By the time someone is 50, they're barely capable of operating a spoon.

demonstrate technical prowess = be able to regurgitate your last Data Structures and Algorithms college course. This is how they get away with their blatant ageism, ask questions only young, recent grads would know. Why don't they just require candidates to list five mumble rap artists or Instagram influencers?

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#99

Post by jackhack »

xiphias2 wrote: post #42
gregfjohnson wrote: post #21

Tangentially related: I just turned 65, and am continuing to immensely enjoy programming. Current job involves embedded digital signal processing in medical devices. My family came up with a new name for my category of programmers: the gerihacktric demographic.. :-) I have interviewed with Alphabet twice, no offers. One time apparently it was a close call.. It would be fun to be the all-time record holder for oldest…

It's great, that you got to interview stage. What I mostly found that most discrimination happens before someone gets to the interview phase, which makes sense, as it makes interviewing cheaper. Most old people don't learn as many new things as younger ones, which makes it harder for older people who do to get the chance to prove themselves.

>>Most old people don't learn as many new things as younger ones

Most old people don't need to learn as many new things. It's called "experience."

Re: Google pays $11M to job-seekers who alleged age discrimination

#100

Post by josefx »

dmitrygr wrote: post #86
josefx wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understood the document Google could have argued to have individual members of the class action dismissed based on qualifications after discovery concluded. The "in person interview" was just the initial requirement to join the class action and not a guarantee that they would remain part of it. The article I linked already mentioned 269 and that dropped to 227 in the bloomberg article linked by the guardi…

The best answer is just return 0

With the 20 second duration you mention in a different comment that makes more sense. I think I spend more time just overthinking on the requirments.
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