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Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

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Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#91

Post by oposa »

segfaultbuserr wrote: post #68
megous wrote: post #51

I wonder if this is the audiophile equivalent of computer enthusiasm. I mean, like audiophiles buying gold cables for 10x the price and no reason, and using 20's tech (vacuum tubes) in their amps, selecting individual tubes and all that... So here the keyboard enthusiasts select their switches, key curvatures, materials, etc. and the result might just be some placebo feel good improvement and more noise for everyone…

> I wonder if this is the audiophile equivalent of computer enthusiasm. Obviously, there are many similarities, for examples, * Community-driven * DIY * Emphasis on personal paste and preferences This is why, drop.com is actually a well-known group-buy website that offers BOTH audiophiles AND mechanical keyboards. > I mean, like audiophiles buying gold cables for 10x the price and no reason, and using 20's tech (vacu…

I don't know. I think there are some parallels, but more in the sense that many audiophile probably don't care that much about the audio. It is more about singling that you are successful enough to buy and care about different things. I think the same can be true of mechanical keyboards (and tech gadgets in general). People like the idea of something being special and having time for that more than they care whether it is. Which is why you will likely find that most people care more about the keycaps than the decaps.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#92

Post by drewg123 »

oposa wrote: post #78
drewg123 wrote: post #71

What I want is a non-radical, normal sized, ergonomic mechanical keyboard. I basically want an MS natural keyboard with a decent feel. Does such a thing exist? Why are so many mechanical keyboards tiny? They don't want to spend the money for more switches? I thought I found something "close enough" in this split mechanical keyboard ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FK74QY5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b... ). But it is "tiny"…

> Why are so many mechanical keyboards tiny? They don't want to spend the money for more switches? Yes, to some extent at least. But maybe more the pcb, plate, case etc. I have a pcb for a ms natural style keyboard (without the numpad) and the effective size is 40x15 cm (16x6 inches). Not that expensive to get in China, but I guess it is has also become fashion with smaller boards now. I think the whole thing sort of…

That sounds like exactly what I want. Are you selling a keyboard around it? I don't need the numpad, but after 10+ years of ms natural, I'm used to the remainder of the layout.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#93

Post by jacobolus »

aasasd wrote: post #74
jacobolus wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately, the ergonomic goal of a tool like a keyboard which is used for extended periods should be to encourage use with all joints in a relatively neutral position, with very low static load on muscles. The thing that splitting the keyboard (while keeping it flat) helps with is reducing “ulnar deviation” of the wrist (outward rotation in the plane of the hands). It is also possible to avoid ulnar deviation on a s…

Personally for myself, I found the best option to be MS Natural 4000's backward tilt (down at the back)—I'd like it to tilt even more at low desk heights but oh well. That way, the wrists stay straight while the fingers drop downwards a bit, in a feeble emulation of Kinesis Advantage's pits. I even use a wrist brace sometimes, which pads the wrist on the palm's side giving even more of a raise—feels really great for…

On a tall desk with a low chair, a “backward” tilt to the keyboard almost inevitably causes some uncomfortable hand/arm positioning.

If you have a high desk and low chair and you can’t change the furniture, you want the keyboard to be tilted (sometimes very aggressively) “forward” so that the plane of the keyboard is parallel to the plane of the forearms.

The keyboard should be kept close to the torso so that the upper arms can hang loosely down with relaxed shoulders. A bent elbow isn’t generally too big a problem.

You’ll notice that typewriters from the middle of the 20th century have a very aggressive tilt to them, to compensate for the standard high desks and low chairs (which were optimized for a middle-sized male to write with a pen, but made quite poor furniture for typically female typists.)

> wrists stay straight while the fingers drop downwards a bit

I have observed people doing this; usually their wrists are not actually straight, but are extended (i.e. bent downward), which is also a bad idea.

Resting palms, wrists, or forearms on a surface is generally undesirable during active typing in my opinion. It’s fine when the hands are not being used but are just sitting there.

Also, the fingers should not “drop downward”. The primary joint which flexes to type a key on a keyboard is the near knuckle where the finger attaches to the palm. You want these first knuckles to be straight when the finger is on the top of the unpressed key, and then flex downward to press the key; this is the strong and efficient part of that joint’s range of motion.

When reaching the near rows of keys, the further knuckles will be bent. When reaching the far rows of keys (which should ideally have tall keycaps) the further knuckles will straighten to reach the keytops.

My personal opinion is that the Kinesis Advantage is not the most biomechanically sound design; it was more or less a cheaper-to-produce ripoff of the Maltron, made by people who had done less thinking about typing than Malt. With careful attention it is IMO possible to significantly improve on both of those designs.

YMMV.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#94

Post by brodsky »

eyeball wrote: post #8
aasasd wrote: post #2

You'd think that with the DIY freedom people would be making Kinesis Advantages and slapping touchpads in the middle. But no, somehow it's the same old flat boards for arms that grow out of the chest and fingers that extend out of the hand instead of rotating on joints; with the typewriters' staggered layout that makes no sense on electronic keyboards. Only now they're a couple centimeters higher so the wrists are ev…

https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ As soon as the trackpoint modules are complete this will be the dream for me.

I have one (sans modules, obviously, for now), and I use it daily with great satisfaction. Not sure yet if it improves my RSI symptoms, but it's not making them worse. It does take a bit of time to develop muscle memory for the different layers. I'm eagerly awaiting the modules to be ready (got the trackball, track point, and the key cluster on order). one other point, I did not find the palm rest to be very comfortable, and wish I could attach it at an angle to the keyboard itself. currently it's sitting in a box since I carry the uhk with me, and it's somewhat hefty.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#95

Post by brodsky »

nxpnsv wrote: post #52
eyeball wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ As soon as the trackpoint modules are complete this will be the dream for me.

I have one. It’s sweet even without the modules, can always order them later. I consider it one of those few perfect purchases. Only issue in 1/2 year: I thought the cool coiled cable was too short so i bought a straight replacement cable for 5€.

you can use any old phone cable by the way!

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#96

Post by brodsky »

nyolfen wrote: post #42
eyeball wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ As soon as the trackpoint modules are complete this will be the dream for me.

very cool, and also the most 90s looking piece of electronics i've seen in a while

true! I'm very tempted to finish mine with custom airbrushed patina á la "abandoned soviet cold war bunker" :)

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#97

Post by xupybd »

That's a well written piece!

As someone with a mechanical Keyboard obsession I have this advice: "Walk away now!". This is a expensive hobby the more you get the more you want. The first fix is something cheap a couple hundred dollars. The next will be a little more bespoke on and on it will go. Until spending $500 on a keyboard seems like an everyday thing.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#98

Post by erikerikson »

drewg123 wrote: post #71

What I want is a non-radical, normal sized, ergonomic mechanical keyboard. I basically want an MS natural keyboard with a decent feel. Does such a thing exist? Why are so many mechanical keyboards tiny? They don't want to spend the money for more switches? I thought I found something "close enough" in this split mechanical keyboard ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FK74QY5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b... ). But it is "tiny"…

This would be wonderful.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#99

Post by aasasd »

jacobolus wrote: post #88
rhinoceraptor wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also imagine manufacturing a piano keyboard is much harder, since it's not a simple on/off switch like computer keyboards. They need to have very precise tactile feel, and support multiple steps of pressure and speed when pressing the keys. It's also an un-chorded interface (pun intended) for traditional pianos. So I'm not really sure how much better it could be made.

If you used hexagonal keys instead of long rectangles, made the keys a bit smaller, arranged them in several rows but not so many columns (so they were all accessible without excessive arm reaching), staggered their heights to make pressing combinations of them as convenient as possible, split the piano into two pieces and tilted them 30–50° upward toward the center (with the idea that each hand stayed on its own sid…

You mean like the various thummers?

E.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPxrTUnb0Iw

or https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLow-C_8Eq_u5Byk-FoXi9...

or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx7FFwgqUqA

From that Wikipedia link, you probably already know that several isomorphic layouts exist.

Re: Anatomy of a Mechanical Keyboard (2018)

#100

Post by TurboHaskal »

Slackwise wrote: post #85
TurboHaskal wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not only the form factor. They’re also obsessed with high resistance switches (going as high as 65 and even 80g activation point) which is sure way to develop RSI. You should aim to go as low as possible but still avoiding accidental activation when resting your fingers on the keyboard. For most people, that means between 30 and 35g. Realforce makes a bunch of them but they’re not held in high regard by the mech…

Actually, increasing resistance has reduced my strain from typing. After a few minutes of typing, I start to bottom out less and less, and instead I feel like I have little shock absorbers under each key, reducing the impact of every press. As for the community, most seem to dislike high resistance switches, which is why my preference for MX Clears leaves me with few brands to purchase from, and my dream ideal of a h…

You can install some BKE Redux domes. I hate those, so you'll probably love them.
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