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When bills pile up, young people turn to strangers on Venmo

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Re: When bills pile up, young people turn to strangers on Venmo

#91

What I don't understand is why people don't band together and simply refuse, collectively, to pay bills that are well known in the culture to be unreasonable. In particular, student loans. But also a few other things. My god, I know so many people who are struggling that it seems like everyone is struggling. I know people making six figures who are worried about losing their homes. In fact, I've known so many people…

The debt-owners have spent a lot of money lobbying politicians to pass laws that make it harder to declare bankruptcy.

The debt-owners can hire much more expensive lawyers than you can. The debt-owners have gotten you to sign a contract that says any disputes will be handled by an arbitration bureau, in person, in a state where the laws are most in their favor.

The debt-owners have the cops on their side.

What are you doing about this? Who do you vote for, who do you give money to? Both in terms of political or charitable donations and in terms of who your landlord's giving money to, what the entertainment corporations you patronize are giving money to, etc.

(Not just you: everyone who agrees with this. Including me. I know I'm sure not dropping everything to fight the creeping economic injustice that's burning the Earth alive and concentrating more and more money in the hands of fewer and fewer people.)

Re: When bills pile up, young people turn to strangers on Venmo

#92
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No? SS is literally a forced pay-in retirement account.

No, that's a common misconception, which I suspect is spread partly by right-leaning finance-industry lobbyists, as their companies salivate over the thought of busting open the piggy-bank and collecting a percentage-fee on the flood of money that would be wildly thrown into the stock-market. SS is INSURANCE policy. Quite literally, "insurance" in the name of the law. Oh, sure, there are lots of extra quirks, but fun…

> No, that's a common misconception,

So it’s not forced?

Re: When bills pile up, young people turn to strangers on Venmo

#93
post #92
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's a common misconception, which I suspect is spread partly by right-leaning finance-industry lobbyists, as their companies salivate over the thought of busting open the piggy-bank and collecting a percentage-fee on the flood of money that would be wildly thrown into the stock-market. SS is INSURANCE policy. Quite literally, "insurance" in the name of the law. Oh, sure, there are lots of extra quirks, but fun…

> No, that's a common misconception, So it’s not forced?

> So it’s not forced?

ಠ_ಠ

Re: When bills pile up, young people turn to strangers on Venmo

#94
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think welfare state actually distributes funds to whoever needs them? They are giving funds away to everyone who can check x boxes on a form, no one in the government ever verifies if the person actually needs the money, like a charity would do.

I find it hard to see how a charity would be able to see into people's lives enough to make that decision, compared to the state which can and does prosecute if you lie on the form.

> can and does prosecute if you lie on the form

The government has no incentive to reduce or even investigate this type of fraud. Enforcement is selective at best.

Re: When bills pile up, young people turn to strangers on Venmo

#95
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In particular, student loans Only if we're also collectively telling people not to take them in the first place. The current culture telling everyone to go to expensive private colleges, then bitching that they're burdened with loans and not pay them, is pretty toxic. Its should be a multi step thing. - Tell people how bad student loans are and how they shouldn't take them if they don't have a plan to pay them back…

> The current culture telling everyone to go to expensive private colleges, then bitching that they're burdened with loans and not pay them, is pretty toxic. These values aren't pushed by the same people. The people telling everyone to go to college and take out the loans are the people enriched by the status quo. The people telling everyone that this is bullshit are the ones who aren't . The people saying the latter…

Debt forgiveness punishes people who worked their ass off to pay their loans off. Every single person who took out a student loan consented to the terms of the loan. Why is it okay to just mindlessly take out a life ruining amount of money to pursue a degree in something of absolutely no marketable value to society? Why are taxpayers suddenly encouraging the continued subsidization of educations which have been proven to have been valueless to society? In fact, I would argue that the majority of these valueless educations are actually worse than valueless, they're ideologically indoctrinating with a divisive and destructive set of principles.

Stop federally backing loans, change the culture to move away from defacto bachelor's degree, and reign in the absurd admissions for public universities. It is not morally justifiable to suddenly foist the collective horrible decision making of a generation onto the larger society.

If we're really at the point where people are incapable of providing real market value to society, we need to talk about UBI. What we shouldn't be talking about is financially incentivizing behavior that is not desirable.

Re: When bills pile up, young people turn to strangers on Venmo

#96

What I don't understand is why people don't band together and simply refuse, collectively, to pay bills that are well known in the culture to be unreasonable. In particular, student loans. But also a few other things. My god, I know so many people who are struggling that it seems like everyone is struggling. I know people making six figures who are worried about losing their homes. In fact, I've known so many people…

First of all you are encouraging stealing, accept a loan and refuse to pay it back Second you don’t want to pay it to spend the money one what life essentials Third no one made you borrow no one made you enroll, you had a lot of other options accepting responsibility for your choice is a good thing Lastly whom would you like to pay for your pick of university and your pick of courses

I don't think you can say concretely that this would be stealing. That would be an extremely simplistic view. Remember, I'm talking about "bills that are well known in the culture to be unreasonable". For example, we can firmly say that the price of higher education has been inflated beyond reason and certainly beyond its actual value. Many have said it. Papers, articles, documentaries, and so on have been produced about it. The current popular theory is that the government guaranteeing the loans incentivized the colleges to hike up the fees drastically, screwing an entire generation by gouging them unreasonably. And if you want to say that students didn't have to make the choice to go to college, well, then you're ignoring the fact that people have been drilling it into young people for quite some time that they won't be able to make it in future America if they don't get a higher education degree. I know parents today who are extremely cash-strapped who nonetheless feel they need their kids to go to college so they won't become serfs in the future economy. I even know parents who have gotten divorced purely so that their kid could receive some form of financial aid (only one parent income shown) so they would be able to afford college. So a ton of students and parents felt like they had no choice but to accept these loans if they wanted to make it in America's future economy. And this idea continues today, though it's slowly starting to receive some pushback. On the whole, these people didn't go to college purely because it would be a fun way to study creative writing. Essentially, the colleges rode the wave of fear and hiked up the price, bolstered by the government guaranteeing they would get paid no matter what. One can ultimately argue that the colleges stole from the students who have historically felt like they had to go if they wanted to make it and be able to secure a middle class position in society.

Unreasonable price inflation combined with a sense of necessity or even physical necessity (health care) exists elsewhere in our economy as well. You can argue that our current political situation is due largely to people who are mad as hell over their life being impacted negatively by these things.

As for what life essentials they'll spend the money on, well, we can ask the burgeoning van dwellers movement (people who live in their cars) as well as those people who are running GoFundMe campaigns so they can afford medicine or a medical procedure. You can ask people who are moving out of the country because they can afford a better life in places like India (I just read about this the other day). You can ask the people who just marched to Canada to buy insulin at a reasonable price.

Re: When bills pile up, young people turn to strangers on Venmo

#97
post #15

"millennial culture is just passing around the same $20 to whoever needs it at the time forever." I see this a lot on my Twitter feed. Recently, a guy with metabolic issues and chronic pain (whose own GoFundMe was "trending" for a while) is setting up a charity livestream for someone else's surgery. https://twitter.com/docsquiddy/status/1148022827917938695

So we're getting rent parties back. Just without the party...

Re: When bills pile up, young people turn to strangers on Venmo

#98
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having trouble figuring what you're actually saying here. Do you not like that people can beg? Or that they have to at all?

>I'm having trouble figuring what you're actually saying here. I'm saying the internet, specifically social media and payment apps/crowd funding sites, allow people to unabashedly give their (true or otherwise) sob story and beg complete strangers for money, I imagine the vast majority of people on sites like gofundme would hesitate to even phone family for financial assistance and I suspect nearly all of the people…

> gas money to give to your mother to go see your undocumented step-father in another state because he was drink driving and is likely to be deported or remain incarcerated... [...] is not a valid use of such sites/methods.

Why not?

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