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Jeff Hawkins: Thousand Brains Theory of Intelligence [video]

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Re: Jeff Hawkins: Thousand Brains Theory of Intelligence [video]

#91

Post by jmvoodoo »

criddell wrote: post #86
espeed wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In computer science, once you understand a data structure, its algorithm is often obvious [1]. Maybe the brain will be like that too, i.e. once you get its structure, you get its algorithm for free. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20047607

But examining the circuits of a computer doesn't tell you anything about a data structure, does it? What would an iPhone schematic tell you about how GarageBand works?

It would tell you that GarageBand was a structure of processor opcodes that executed on the processor and had the ability to interface with a storage device, a video screen and an audio processor, among other things, and that the opcodes for GarageBand were likely stored on said storage device.

Maybe you wouldn't understand GarageBand yet, but you'd have a solid set of next steps for your research.

Re: Jeff Hawkins: Thousand Brains Theory of Intelligence [video]

#92

Post by dboreham »

clmul wrote: post #58
devoply wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech is not a choice, especially when there are evident benefits from the tech. Like for instance was agriculture a choice, yes maybe for a small while after it was invented. After that it was no longer a choice. Now it's not a choice at all. AI will be much quicker.

Tech is most definitely optional: Nuclear energy was for a while considered a great option, but now a lot of people are (unfairly IMO) turning their back on it, and you see that there isn't as significant a number of new plants built (just to give an example)

Nuclear Energy was a cover story for weapons manufacturing.

Re: Jeff Hawkins: Thousand Brains Theory of Intelligence [video]

#93

Post by espeed »

criddell wrote: post #86
espeed wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In computer science, once you understand a data structure, its algorithm is often obvious [1]. Maybe the brain will be like that too, i.e. once you get its structure, you get its algorithm for free. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20047607

But examining the circuits of a computer doesn't tell you anything about a data structure, does it? What would an iPhone schematic tell you about how GarageBand works?

Have you ever seen one of Professor Sussman's talks where he analyzes a circuit diagram?

For example, see Prof Sussman's 2011 StrangeLoop talk (circuit analysis example begins at ~25 min mark)...

We Really Don't Know How To Compute! https://www.infoq.com/presentations/We-Really-Dont-Know-How-...

If you have the hardware schematic or the physical hardware and enough time, you can figure out what the hardware does. You can determine what its constraints are, and if you understand it well enough (for simplicity's sake, let's say you understand the hardware up to the level of the engineers who designed it), you can tell what the hardware system can and can't do and what type of codes are required to make the hardware work. You can tell at a low level what the GarageBand developers had to work with when they designed their game. And once you know the required codes, you can write software to generate the codes to make it work. And if you're really good and have the right tools, you can analyze the hardware and/or model the data flows to determine what the optimal data structures must be based on the hardware capacity constraints and data flow.

Google "reverse engineering hardware chip circuits" or watch Ken Shirriff's 2016 Hackaday talk...

Reading Silicon: How to Reverse Engineer Integrated Circuits https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHx-XUA6f9g

Re: Jeff Hawkins: Thousand Brains Theory of Intelligence [video]

#94

Post by JPLeRouzic »

cowteriyaki wrote: post #84
criddell wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the brain isn't a computer, but why do we think examining the structure is going to reveal an algorithm for intelligence? Isn't that like taking an iPhone, cutting it into slices and studying it with the hopes of finding how GarageBand works?

Funny you'd mention that, there was a study from Jonas and Kording [0] that considered a microprocessor as an organism and applied analytic methods used in neuroscience to see if they can figure out how it processes information. [0] Jonas, E. and Kording, K.P., 2017. Could a neuroscientist understand a microprocessor?. PLoS computational biology, 13(1), p.e1005268. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pcbi.1005268

I think it is named after a 2002 study "Could a biologist fix a radio" which advocated that the current methods in biology were inadequate to understand a living body. It was a plea to do more System Biology, but even if it is widely known it does not changed much the way biology is done.

https://www.math.arizona.edu/~jwatkins/canabiologistfixaradi...

Re: Jeff Hawkins: Thousand Brains Theory of Intelligence [video]

#95

Post by criddell »

jmvoodoo wrote: post #91
criddell wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But examining the circuits of a computer doesn't tell you anything about a data structure, does it? What would an iPhone schematic tell you about how GarageBand works?

It would tell you that GarageBand was a structure of processor opcodes that executed on the processor and had the ability to interface with a storage device, a video screen and an audio processor, among other things, and that the opcodes for GarageBand were likely stored on said storage device. Maybe you wouldn't understand GarageBand yet, but you'd have a solid set of next steps for your research.

Would the layout of transistors indicate that opcodes exist?

Re: Jeff Hawkins: Thousand Brains Theory of Intelligence [video]

#96

Post by tibbydude »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #69
gnode wrote: post #31

I think the cortex is attractive to AI research because its highly uniform micro-anatomy suggests there is a simple algorithm behind general intelligence to be found within. While intelligent behaviours appear to reside in the cortex, the limbic system is heavily involved in learning and cognition generally. Additionally, animals lacking a cortex, like birds, are still capable of many intelligent behaviours typically…

I also find it interesting that birds don’t have a neuro cortex: my pet parrot exhibits a few very intelligent behaviors. The newer thousand brain theory feels close to correct to me. I used the older HTM for a fairly quick time series anomaly detection experiment and it was generally promising. I would be curious how well a thousand brain approach would work.

"Homolog of mammalian neocortex found in bird brain"

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121001151953.h...

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