> high verbatim note content was associated with lower retention of the lecture material.
I think this a key finding/point. And other connotation to this idea would be that, whatever you learn, write them down in your words.
A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)
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Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)
#92I'm 53 and work in IT for a 'funky' learning/media company, ranking among the seniors in both age and position. I have a customised Cornell Notes* Word doc template, and I run off batches of 5-10 sheets to take to meetings and training sessions. My colleagues typically turn up with their tablets, surfaces, laptops, phones and 'multitask', however a few have started to adopt my method - it's been particularly useful f…
Love the Cornell notes. Would you share your template ?
I’d like to see this too if you’re willing/happy to share
Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)
#93Going against what seems to be the prevailing thought in this thread. Here's why and how I take notes primarily on a laptop. When the lecture, presentation or meeting starts a have a macro that creates a new Evernote note prepended with the date and starts recording into QuickTime. Throughout the exchange, I am typing up quick and dirty first draft notes using a macro to screenshot the portion of the QuickTime window…
Nice workflow, and goes back to this comment somewhat: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20271383 However, I'm not sure about the legality of recording audio without informing everyone in the room. In my country that would be illegal as some people have protected identities.
I think I understand your concern about the [local] legality of “recording audio”... if everybody would cease bringing (or otherwise sufficiently disable) _recording devices_ to/in public spaces.
I don’t think the average person understands > cares > is negatively impacted by that concern.
Any knowledge or experiences?
Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Sounds like the actual learning secret is "don't take verbatim notes", and the only relevance of the laptop is that it makes it much easier to take verbatim notes. Yes, that's pretty much what it explains. The title "don't take notes with a laptop" is rather misleading. It's a well known fact that summarizing requires the learner's brain to actively process the information, as opposed to passively receiving informa…
Your notion of cognitive resources is most likely very different from your brain's. As I recall, all the evidence shows that handwriting rather than typing - even when using similar strategies - has better recall. When writing, you can more easily draw diagrams, do very quick sketches, add arrows and links back to other parts of the text, etc. In short, you have more ways of contexualizing the notes and representing…
> Your notion of cognitive resources is most likely very different from your brain's.
In this context, I disagree. If the act of writing is using most of my attention, I will miss large amounts of what is being said.
> As I recall, all the evidence shows that handwriting rather than typing - even when using similar strategies - has better recall.
I believe this is a highly nuanced issue and it's hard to make blanket statements. For example, I can't see how it would apply to people with various degrees of dyslexia - which could be up to 20% of the population. Having said that, I'd be interested to see evidence that proves otherwise.
Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)
#95In lectures, note-taking at all should be avoided, most of the time. Most lectures cover material that is presented very clearly in accompanying materials, books or the internet. The idea I could do a better job than those authors while listening to the stuff for the first time is ludicrous. And at least for me it doesn't help recollection or focus to write notes while listening, and many students report they can tak…
I wish lectures weren't really a thing in their current format. Why just reiterate what is already available in text and video? Have students consume the theoretical material beforehand and schedule Q&A's or practical application sessions or anything else where the interaction between lecturer and student may become something more dynamic.
That’s a great point. I could see professors iteratively updating source material based on QA. Wasting less and less time students time each semester. Compiling, refining and polishing whatever it is they had to say.
Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)
#96In lectures, note-taking at all should be avoided, most of the time. Most lectures cover material that is presented very clearly in accompanying materials, books or the internet. The idea I could do a better job than those authors while listening to the stuff for the first time is ludicrous. And at least for me it doesn't help recollection or focus to write notes while listening, and many students report they can tak…
Yes, this is what I came to the comments to say. For me, paying attention was much more important than trying to take notes. It's a shame this study didn't have a third group that didn't take notes at all.
Same here. I wonder if it's the courses we took. I did Mathematics and Computer Science. The only time I took notes it was a disaster. My notes were perfect, my recollection awful. I had to reread them to get any value.
The rest of the time I just sat in class and paid close attention, rarely noting down to look up some lemma or the other. Way better results. Instant recollection. I can still remember the Nullstellensatz vaguely and the room in which I first encountered it and where I was in it and that's almost a decade ago.
Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)
#97In lectures, note-taking at all should be avoided, most of the time. Most lectures cover material that is presented very clearly in accompanying materials, books or the internet. The idea I could do a better job than those authors while listening to the stuff for the first time is ludicrous. And at least for me it doesn't help recollection or focus to write notes while listening, and many students report they can tak…
As another data point, I take notes almost almost solely for increased recollection, I've never really studied them. The physical act of writing down a phrase or idea emphasizes it in my memory to such a noticeable degree that if I lack writing utensils I will mime the action; the physical notes themselves are rarely useful once made. I find this also works in settings that are not live, I am able to work through tex…
Maybe you would do even better just imagining writing it down on paper or actively building mental representations.
But if it works well enough, why not? The act of writing notes may involve mental processing or not. If it's just a matter of concentration and focus, there might be better remedies.
Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)
#98I've heard students about using 1 shared google doc where the "multiplay" with their notes, so that they all chip in and even elaborate on certain questions.
ahh that's cool. I've done similar things at Meetup organizer meetings where everyone chips in to add what the feel is important to the "minutes". like a static record of what each person felt the others should remember takeway
Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)
#99In lectures, note-taking at all should be avoided, most of the time. Most lectures cover material that is presented very clearly in accompanying materials, books or the internet. The idea I could do a better job than those authors while listening to the stuff for the first time is ludicrous. And at least for me it doesn't help recollection or focus to write notes while listening, and many students report they can tak…
The exact opposite works for me.
Note taking massively helps me on both remembering and the level of attention I pay to the lecture itself. Without notes, my attention drifts and I might as well just be passively watching TV.
Like Hermitian909, I don't particularly care about the notes afterwards. They're sometimes handy for skimming over when prepping for an exam or reworking through an example of a half-understood concept, but for the most part I don't use them.
Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)
#100In lectures, note-taking at all should be avoided, most of the time. Most lectures cover material that is presented very clearly in accompanying materials, books or the internet. The idea I could do a better job than those authors while listening to the stuff for the first time is ludicrous. And at least for me it doesn't help recollection or focus to write notes while listening, and many students report they can tak…
>In lectures, note-taking at all should be avoided, most of the time. That's a very strong statement that I guess is based on your own personal experience? If I can provide my own subjective opinion and educated guess, I do agree that taking notes verbatim feels close to pointless. You need to take in what you're hearing and grok it before you jot down your summary. Then you can go revisit your notes later to practic…
My strong statement is first of all based on the specific act of note taking in the specific situation of lectures for the specific goal of learning.
You seem to conflate taking no notes with not listening. If the only point of the note-taking is to ensure the listening and mental engagement, then I doubt that's the most effective way.