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The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

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Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#91

Post by BrandoElFollito »

foxfired wrote: post #39

In January of this year, I was blessed with two beautiful fraternal twins. Twins come out earlier and are expected to be preemies usually. The problem was, they were due on March 15. We spent two months in the NICU (newborn intensive care unit). The nurses couldn't be more amazing. They took care of those babies like they were their own. And along the way, they took care of us. They made sure nothing was ever missing…

This is a horrible situation to be in. My son was born with cardiac and hearing problems (thankfully all gone) and living in France the cost of the care was something I never thought of (during and after). I never saw the price, actually.

It is only recently that you can see how much was spent on your health care, and this requires an action from you (otherwise you would not know).

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#92

Post by jelliclesfarm »

paulcole wrote: post #57

Article doesn’t even touch on the environmental costs. Probably the worst thing you can do for the environment is have a kid. Edit: Why downvote this? It’s like talking about the cost of driving while ignoring all the costs being externalized and offloaded on everyone else.

I agree.

Tragedy of the commons scenario.

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#93

Post by AnimalMuppet »

paulcole wrote: post #57

Article doesn’t even touch on the environmental costs. Probably the worst thing you can do for the environment is have a kid. Edit: Why downvote this? It’s like talking about the cost of driving while ignoring all the costs being externalized and offloaded on everyone else.

Why downvoted? Maybe two reasons. First, it's off topic. You look like you're trying to find a way to sneak your hobbyhorse into the discussion, even when it doesn't really fit.

Second, by the same logic, the best thing you could do for the environment is go on a murder spree and then commit suicide.

That should appall you. You should respond "No, because..." (If you don't, seriously, please get help rather than committing suicide.)

But what's the reason for your "no"? Because the murder spree is immoral? (It is.) Because suicide would hurt too many people around you? (It would.) Or is it because, despite the environmental cost of your continued existence, you feel that you could make a positive (net) difference with the rest of your life?

But if you can, so can your child.

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#94

Post by souprock »

EADGBE wrote: post #87
souprock wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few comments above I said "I have a dozen kids". With parents, that is 14 people. We cook. I look for sale prices. We eat a lot of chicken, but we also get fish. I count just 3 of you. Scaling up for family size and ignoring the sizes of the people, your $1000 would be $4666 for me. I guess I'm doing well to spend only $4000. Scaling the other direction, you'd be on a similar per-person budget if you spent $857 per…

Not to discount, but I'm sure you benefit from buying in bulk as well. We are a family of 5, about as efficient with food costs ($250/week) (yet, also our preschoolers are still quite picky eaters). I'm just enjoying your comments. Sounds like you're doing a lot of things right. Right on!

It depends what you mean by "bulk".

I buy normal packages from a normal supermarket. I try to buy a bit extra when there is a sale, but I only have two refrigerators and a chest freezer. What is "bulk" to most people can be eaten in a week. I might empty the supermarket's supply of sliced cheddar cheese when it goes on sale, grabbing 10 pounds of it, but we'll have that eaten within a week or two. Sometimes I'll grab all the extra-large packages of ground beef or an entire display box full of canned herring. We go through 2 gallons of milk per day. There just isn't any way to really stock up on things without more storage space, and I'd have to find a store that wouldn't run out of things when I go shopping.

Maybe I should see about having Sysco trucks deliver food. :-)

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#95

Post by paulcole »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #93
paulcole wrote: post #57

Article doesn’t even touch on the environmental costs. Probably the worst thing you can do for the environment is have a kid. Edit: Why downvote this? It’s like talking about the cost of driving while ignoring all the costs being externalized and offloaded on everyone else.

Why downvoted? Maybe two reasons. First, it's off topic. You look like you're trying to find a way to sneak your hobbyhorse into the discussion, even when it doesn't really fit. Second, by the same logic, the best thing you could do for the environment is go on a murder spree and then commit suicide. That should appall you. You should respond "No, because..." (If you don't, seriously, please get help rather than comm…

Boy, must have been a fun ride down the slippery slope from don't have kids to go on a murder spree.

> despite the environmental cost of your continued existence, you feel that you could make a positive (net) difference with the rest of your life?

I definitely do not feel that. I recognize that essentially every person is a net negative on the world (especially myself). But I have already been born and there's nothing I'm willing to do to change that at this time.

I mean I get that people like having kids, but at least acknowledge how stupid it is to have one and then recycle or whatever like it makes some difference.

This is not off topic at all by the way. The article is on the cost parents pay to give birth. But ignores the fact that parents are getting an unbelievable discount by offloading the environmental costs to the rest of the world. If we were serious about combatting climate change, having a child would be all but prohibitively expensive.

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#96

Post by EADGBE »

souprock wrote: post #94
EADGBE wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to discount, but I'm sure you benefit from buying in bulk as well. We are a family of 5, about as efficient with food costs ($250/week) (yet, also our preschoolers are still quite picky eaters). I'm just enjoying your comments. Sounds like you're doing a lot of things right. Right on!

It depends what you mean by "bulk". I buy normal packages from a normal supermarket. I try to buy a bit extra when there is a sale, but I only have two refrigerators and a chest freezer. What is "bulk" to most people can be eaten in a week. I might empty the supermarket's supply of sliced cheddar cheese when it goes on sale, grabbing 10 pounds of it, but we'll have that eaten within a week or two. Sometimes I'll grab…

By bulk I mean the quantities not usually offered in grocery stores. Club-card-style outlets, basically. Of course; that's another trip, and a membership fee, and they don't always have everything you need like a typical grocery store will.

For us, it's always a struggle with waffles (And there's only 5 of us). If everyone eats two waffles in the morning (which happens 98% of the time) that's 10 waffles a day. Hardly anyone carries 48-counts so we end up grabbing as many 24-count boxes as we can and usually have to make another run by Sunday evening. Maybe when the kids get older we could switch to a waffle iron.

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#97

Post by AnimalMuppet »

paulcole wrote: post #95
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why downvoted? Maybe two reasons. First, it's off topic. You look like you're trying to find a way to sneak your hobbyhorse into the discussion, even when it doesn't really fit. Second, by the same logic, the best thing you could do for the environment is go on a murder spree and then commit suicide. That should appall you. You should respond "No, because..." (If you don't, seriously, please get help rather than comm…

Boy, must have been a fun ride down the slippery slope from don't have kids to go on a murder spree. > despite the environmental cost of your continued existence, you feel that you could make a positive (net) difference with the rest of your life? I definitely do not feel that. I recognize that essentially every person is a net negative on the world (especially myself). But I have already been born and there's nothin…

That's not quite a slippery slope. I didn't say that people like you are going to become murderers. I said that, by the standard you are using to choose to not have kids, that would be a good thing to do (and therefore maybe your standard is less reasonable than it appears to you to be). But you seem to find it comforting to have a glib dismissal to use, rather than actually interacting with the point.

Now, you did kind of answer it in a way. The only way my murder point actually makes sense is if reducing the population (or the environment) is your only value. You obviously have other values as well (as you should). But just as those other values rule out murder and suicide (though that might benefit the environment), they could also allow a child.

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#98

Post by paulcole »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #97
paulcole wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boy, must have been a fun ride down the slippery slope from don't have kids to go on a murder spree. > despite the environmental cost of your continued existence, you feel that you could make a positive (net) difference with the rest of your life? I definitely do not feel that. I recognize that essentially every person is a net negative on the world (especially myself). But I have already been born and there's nothin…

That's not quite a slippery slope. I didn't say that people like you are going to become murderers. I said that, by the standard you are using to choose to not have kids, that would be a good thing to do (and therefore maybe your standard is less reasonable than it appears to you to be). But you seem to find it comforting to have a glib dismissal to use, rather than actually interacting with the point. Now, you did k…

And if those values allow a child, they could also allow living in a huge house, flying in airplanes, generally being wasteful, and well, look where that's got us.

Basically do whatever the fuck you want because your value system has allowed you to justify it to yourself.

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#99

Post by AnimalMuppet »

paulcole wrote: post #98
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not quite a slippery slope. I didn't say that people like you are going to become murderers. I said that, by the standard you are using to choose to not have kids, that would be a good thing to do (and therefore maybe your standard is less reasonable than it appears to you to be). But you seem to find it comforting to have a glib dismissal to use, rather than actually interacting with the point. Now, you did k…

And if those values allow a child, they could also allow living in a huge house, flying in airplanes, generally being wasteful, and well, look where that's got us. Basically do whatever the fuck you want because your value system has allowed you to justify it to yourself.

Permit me to point out that you are now doing a slippery slope - or at least, doing as much of a slippery slope as I did.

Re: The cost of raising a child in America has soared (2018)

#100

Post by EvanAnderson »

pkaye wrote: post #89
EvanAnderson wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current year is a high deductible plan (as all of mine have been since starting self-employment in 2004) but is not HSA-eligible. (Most years we've had an HSA-eligible plan, but some years none were available or they were vastly more expensive than the non-HSA eligible, which makes no sense.) We found a way to get an employer-sponsored plan thru my LLC this year and that dropped the premiums to just under $12K w/…

I was punching some numbers into Covered California marketplace and for $12K you could get some pretty good plans. And if you qualify for the subsidy it is much lower. Some of the HMO plans have no or low deductibles.

Sounds like California has a much nicer market than we do in Ohio. I had one provider to choose from in the Marketplace for my county in 2019. Their "Silver" plan was what we had in 2018, chosen over the "Bronze" because the lower-priced "Bronze" was 20% co-insurance on inpatient care versus 100% coverage after deductible on "Siler". Aside from that company's plans those who purchased on the Marketplace in my county for 2019 had no other choices.
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