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The internet is an SEO landfill

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Re: The internet is an SEO landfill

#91
post #11

It started off strong, nicely illustrating the background leading to this mess, but then the conclusion falters, in particular the accusation of: "Don’t the makers of Search Engines know this? Of course they do. It’s just not in their interest to bring clarity." without any suggestions on what they could be doing to achieve that clarity. To me, it sadly seems like a losing war between the SEO-spammers and the search…

> If The spam is good enough “Good spam” is just real content.

Yes, more or less. But with the difference that it doesn't even attempt at being true.

We've been spoiled by the internet of old, where geeky types wrote blogs and created web sites sharing their intricate knowledge of their favourite topic. Of course there's a fair share of conspiracy theorists and incorrect ideas, but it was generally in good faith and somewhat easy to filter.

Now you won't find those anymore, instead we get SEO-optimising sites with text sourced via Fiverr resembling meaningful content but without any ambitions whatsoever of correctness nor meaningfulness. Best case, it just ends up in frustration as you realise that it's just filler, worse case, it actually misleads you with some made-up fact that you couldn't see any reason to lie about.

Re: The internet is an SEO landfill

#92
post #42
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then the search engine itself would be probably thrown away :-D

sadly true, but an open source engine like searx could be made to do such a thing

How could it be sustained? Search engines are expensive to run.

Re: The internet is an SEO landfill

#93

Unfortunately SEO ruins great, witty and brief marketing texts.

> Unfortunately SEO ruins great, witty and brief marketing texts.

SEO content marketing is basically a descendent of direct marketing -- the stuff you used to get in the mail, in two-page spreads in Reader's Digest and so forth.

Direct marketers have known for a very long time that long-form copy sells better. They had the numbers to prove it long before "analytics" was a common idea -- the very term A/B testing refers to the "A" and "B" sides of a newspaper print roller being able to print two versions of an advertisement.

Source: Tested Advertising Methods by Caples. A fascinating, if depressing, read.

Re: The internet is an SEO landfill

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what happens when you don’t give users control over how search works. The weighting is blatantly user hostile by default because it’s so directed towards people who pay for your eyes. I would pay a massive amount of money for a search engine with a “no commercial results” switch. Of course paid search introduces class issues. I think we should view search like a public utility because it’s absolutely necessar…

The original designers of the web envisioned a world where every user could have their own chosen "agent" to navigate the web for them. This is where the User-Agent HTTP header comes from. There would be search agents, data mining agents, and interactive browsing agents. We missed out on like 90% of what the information revolution was supposed to bring to users, and instead the data giants have captured all the value…

We expect everything on the web, including our user agent, to be free as in no cost. The only way to pay for the development cost is to sell to third parties aka advertisers. If people actually paid money to develop more advanced user agents there would be a market for them.

Why do people prefer free over paid? I think people underestimate the influence of advertisers and underestimate the value of their own time spent researching and dealing with crappy products. It’s almost like a psychological bias.

I like the idea of a better user agent but would I pay for one? Judging by my refusal to pay for quality journalism I’m guessing it’d be a hard sell. That’s another thing I should be willing to pay for but don’t for some weird reason.

Re: The internet is an SEO landfill

#95
post #42
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then the search engine itself would be probably thrown away :-D

sadly true, but an open source engine like searx could be made to do such a thing

The real cost is in the infrastructure needed to run it unless you go full P2P

Re: The internet is an SEO landfill

#96
post #18

Search results are so heavily weighted toward commerce, products and services because those are the people that can spend money on SEO. It's made the internet, seen through the eyes of search results, seem like an aggressive, shady market bazaar. I try searching for anything remotely bike related, bike community, mechanical information, or just general cool bike stuff and I can't find the human community underneath a…

>"Which pretty closely reflects the real world, but damn that's a shame."

This sums it up nicely haha

Re: The internet is an SEO landfill

#99
I think what frustrates me most about the current state of SEO is that it is a race to the bottom for both businesses and consumers. Below a certain threshhold of notability, traffic essentially becomes correlated with SEO spend. Even the business that wins the SEO war in its local community can end up with issues, as for certain industries the disproportionate number of eyes on the first few links can easily balloon into an unmanageable amount of service calls and customer support infrastructure needs, when all the while perfectly adequate businesses languish away on the second and third SERPs ends up fighting over the remaining 5% traffic scraps.

In an ideal world, traffic numbers would be correlated with some combination of product quality mixed with a sort of load-balancing effect so that each quality company could match their available supply to the demand. I still believe, perhaps naively, that search engines could have profitably built infrastructure to serve the needs of consumers in this way -- focus group-like services for commercial search that would require companies to pay for the privilege of submitting to objective evaluations of their products in exchange for more traffic. In a structure like this, the incentives of search engines and end users could be aligned.

Instead, Eric Schmidt and the rest of the market share MBAs came into the picture and we got precisely the opposite -- instead of holding businesses beholden to the needs of end users, now we have this insidious and dystopian perpetual advertising machine where not only are businesses now beholden to the needs of a faceless SEO algorithm, funneling money away from R&D and into this annoying waterfall of trite crap noted by this article, but IMO even worse is that end users are essentially beholden to the needs of the corporations -- either by getting creepily data-mined and harvested for the benefit of the highest AdWords bidder, or by getting inundated by constant ads, as anyone who has tried watching YouTube without AdBlocker on can attest to. I don't think I'm being hyperbolic when I say that nobody wins except the search engine stockholders.

I was totally heartbroken when Google sold out and created AdWords. I naively had thought it would never happen -- Brin and Page were literally on record saying, “Advertising funded search engines will be inherently biased towards the advertisers and away from the needs of consumers” (Anatomy of a Large-Scale Hypertextual Web Search Engine, 1998)[0].

So I've had embarrassingly heated discussions with Googler family members where I raise this issue, and their defense has been essentially that AdWords is a necessary evil that funds all their infrastructure expenses, as well as their cool R&D and "20% time" and all their ML advancements that they get to do, like AlphaGo, Waymo etc.

But I really think that when your company depends on perverse incentives in this way, the end result will ultimately drift away from their original job of serving consumers, and eventually exist only to inflate their own share price and run what amounts to a protectionist racket. The only difference is that the threat of withholding SEO traffic is much cheaper and efficient option than mafia shakedowns.

Re: The internet is an SEO landfill

#100
post #39

Question, and seo is not my field of expertise at all. Doesn't it seem odd that an seo consultant says to pay for search result ads? In my mind, the point of seo is not to pay "per click". You may pay for a great article to be written, and pay for it to be on a site, which is fair to me. But I then expect it to be noticed because of it's own merits, quality of writing and quality of "publisher". If you also have to p…

I'm not an expert but have worked with some, developing seo tools.

What I've seen is that Google or FB ads are used by big clients that can afford it as a quick and easy way to get visits.

An seo 'expert' whose main recommendation is to get Google ads is no expert at all.

They can be part of a marketing campaign but are by no means the most cost effective way to getting good rankings, and users are more likely to click on organic search results than ads.

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