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Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

economist.com

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Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#91

Post by megaremote »

macinjosh wrote: post #76
freebear wrote: post #47

Air travel is such a non issue, for any person flying it will of course be a large part of their carbon footprint, but the atmosphere does not care where the CO2 came from. https://insideclimatenews.org/sites/default/files/styles/icn...

What's your point? According to your link aviation emits twice as much CO2 than long distance road travel. Clearly limiting long distance travel would have an impact. Doubly so if aviation was reduced. Yet many global elites (Obama, Macron, et. al) agree to impose heavy restrictions on vehicle emissions used to feed, transport, and employ the average citizens of their countries. Meanwhile those who can afford it take…

> agree to impose heavy restrictions on vehicle emissions used to feed, transport, and employ the average citizens of their countries

Lets ignore all the other environmental costs of vehicles, roads, gas, refineries, deaths, gas stations, and the big one, city sprawl.

Cars are the single worst thing every created, and not just for the environment.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#92

Post by exabrial »

cardiffspaceman wrote: post #7
exabrial wrote: post #2

That's a funny way to spell terrorists.

Since the intent is political I am not far from agreeing with you. But pragmatically when we see an act and decide someone needs to go to jail for it, the "international community" stays away from that word[0]. The acts themselves can be sanctioned without having to put the word 'terrorism' in any given law. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_terrorism

My motivation is preservation of every human life, starting with the present. I fully distrust all political organizations to accomplish this.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#94

Post by NotPaidToPost »

samcday wrote: post #89
Lendal wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree. It makes no sense. If you're an activist, and you live in a democracy, why wouldn't you affect change more meaningfully by participating in the democracy you live in? Why would you buy something that itself has a carbon footprint (manufacturing, distribution) and that will only serve to politically damage the cause you purport to care about? What do you want people to do, fly only battery-powered pas…

> If you're an activist, and you live in a democracy, why wouldn't you affect change more meaningfully by participating in the democracy you live in? You seem to be suggesting that there's a "right" way to participate in democracy. Instead of passing down armchair judgements about which forms are the wrong way to participate, could you perhaps suggest what you think would be a better alternative to what XR has planne…

There certainly are wrong and undemocratic ways to "participate".

Breaking the law, causing public nuisance (to say the least), putting aircrafts are risk are not acceptable.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#95

Post by PhasmaFelis »

Lendal wrote: post #77
inflatableDodo wrote: post #12

>"Protesters plan a return to the airport—and there is very little the authorities can do" This line is curious. When was the first one? I mean there was the shenanigans where nobody was sure if there was even a drone, but there was in that case, as far as I am aware, no evidence for any activism beyond people saying that it might be activists. I am dubious about this reporting. If someone can show me something from…

I tend to agree. It makes no sense. If you're an activist, and you live in a democracy, why wouldn't you affect change more meaningfully by participating in the democracy you live in? Why would you buy something that itself has a carbon footprint (manufacturing, distribution) and that will only serve to politically damage the cause you purport to care about? What do you want people to do, fly only battery-powered pas…

> Why would you buy something that itself has a carbon footprint (manufacturing, distribution)

This is a silly argument. It's impossible to live in the modern world without generating carbon. No one sane says we should stop entirely. People just want to reduce the impact to manageable levels. A single toy drone obviously has a tiny carbon footprint.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#96

Post by PhasmaFelis »

NotPaidToPost wrote: post #94
samcday wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're an activist, and you live in a democracy, why wouldn't you affect change more meaningfully by participating in the democracy you live in? You seem to be suggesting that there's a "right" way to participate in democracy. Instead of passing down armchair judgements about which forms are the wrong way to participate, could you perhaps suggest what you think would be a better alternative to what XR has planne…

There certainly are wrong and undemocratic ways to "participate". Breaking the law, causing public nuisance (to say the least), putting aircrafts are risk are not acceptable.

Come on. Civil disobedience is a cornerstone of peaceful, democratic protest. Every black American who sat at a white lunch counter or in the white seats on a bus was breaking the law and "causing a public nuisance."

As for putting aircraft at risk, the Economist won't actually let me read the article (I wish people would stop posting links to sites like this), but I doubt they actually put anyone in danger. It's like the environmentalists who spiked trees to stop loggers--they clearly marked the affected trees, they openly informed the loggers of what they'd done, and even if they went ahead anyway, a properly maintained saw has safety measures that would prevent injury. But they were still spun as trying to murder loggers.

Is this a good, effective, worthwhile protest? I dunno. But there's got to be more a more coherent argument you could make.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#97

Post by dogma1138 »

opportune wrote: post #82
macinjosh wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your point? According to your link aviation emits twice as much CO2 than long distance road travel. Clearly limiting long distance travel would have an impact. Doubly so if aviation was reduced. Yet many global elites (Obama, Macron, et. al) agree to impose heavy restrictions on vehicle emissions used to feed, transport, and employ the average citizens of their countries. Meanwhile those who can afford it take…

I think aviation is pretty well-suited to carbon taxes/offsets. There are only a few major players and it would be very easy to enforce. Also I think the market would rather easily bear a 30% increase in flight costs

The UK is an island, if you crank up airfare by 30% if would have a huge impact on the economy.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#98

Post by adrianN »

NotPaidToPost wrote: post #94
samcday wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're an activist, and you live in a democracy, why wouldn't you affect change more meaningfully by participating in the democracy you live in? You seem to be suggesting that there's a "right" way to participate in democracy. Instead of passing down armchair judgements about which forms are the wrong way to participate, could you perhaps suggest what you think would be a better alternative to what XR has planne…

There certainly are wrong and undemocratic ways to "participate". Breaking the law, causing public nuisance (to say the least), putting aircrafts are risk are not acceptable.

Without breaking laws and causing public nuisance India would still be part of the British Empire and African Americans would still be second class citizens. Climate change is a vastly more serious problem than either of those two.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#99

Post by llukas »

Baeocystin wrote: post #83
llukas wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cutting power to air traffic control makes planes vulnerable to collisions which each other. Flying drone causes incoming planes to divert to other airports and prevents take-offs - there is no crash risk. > They can hold up signs outside the airport, but they have no right to put aircraft at risk. That is extremism. You suggest they should protest where everybody can ignore them and in order to prove your point pull…

>Flying drone causes incoming planes to divert to other airports and prevents take-offs - there is no crash risk. There very much is increased risk whenever a flight plan requires sudden changes- the increased cognitive load on the flight controllers, the increased stress level on the pilots, the increased stress on the passengers... Each one may not seem like much, but it's a hole poked in the cheese. https://en.wik…

I agree that this is slightly less safe than normal operation. Pilots and flight controllers need to be ready to change plans everyday for various reasons be it weather, crashes, onboard emergencies etc. Landings in heavy cross-wind often are repeated and this is unforeseen and normal reason to change plans.

If drone would pose any significant danger to flight control system then entire system is not working as it should.

It's nowhere close to "cutting the power to air traffic control" as original post claimed.

Re: Drones piloted by climate-change activists target Heathrow

#100

Post by adrianN »

Lendal wrote: post #77
inflatableDodo wrote: post #12

>"Protesters plan a return to the airport—and there is very little the authorities can do" This line is curious. When was the first one? I mean there was the shenanigans where nobody was sure if there was even a drone, but there was in that case, as far as I am aware, no evidence for any activism beyond people saying that it might be activists. I am dubious about this reporting. If someone can show me something from…

I tend to agree. It makes no sense. If you're an activist, and you live in a democracy, why wouldn't you affect change more meaningfully by participating in the democracy you live in? Why would you buy something that itself has a carbon footprint (manufacturing, distribution) and that will only serve to politically damage the cause you purport to care about? What do you want people to do, fly only battery-powered pas…

> What do you want people to do, fly only battery-powered passenger airlines?

Pay about $200 for each ton of carbon dioxide equivalent their flights blow into the air instead of benefiting from tax free kerosene.

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