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Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

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Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#91

Post by Sawamara »

vfc1 wrote: post #88
Sawamara wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your body needs fat. Also, olive oil contains plenty of antioxidants, and Vitamin K and E - so the claim that it is just empty calories is pointless. Also, just a thought game for you: if I were to claim that your carbs are just empty calories, and my fat covers those calories too, what would your response be? Because the body can create carbs from fat and fat from carbs, so that point is kinda moot. Just pointing ou…

This is a common myth, the amount of vitamins in olive oil is very modest compared to other foods. Eating olive oil for vitamins is a bit like smoking for getting oxygen, there are plenty of other ways much healthier to cover those nutritional needs. The body can create fats from carbs and vice-versa but those processes are not metabolically efficient. That is not the main way our body consumes calories. Most commonl…

You keep moving the goalpost. Lets just assume we are on a caloric budget and we deal with fat being fat, so we can, like good third graders in math, just count the calories.

No more wiggling around with "too many calories" and "you need to burn calories to transform them to carbs" and then "oh, but it also sticks to your abdomen". Pick one. Stick to that one, and argue with that.

Also, yeah, since, for example, coffee is the highest source of antioxidants in the western diet for many people, I am willing to make a bet that sunflower oil will going to be their highest source of E-vitamin (300% of your required daily amount per 100ml). Olive oil will be the highest source of Vitamin K and both Vitamin E for people who do not GORGE on greens.

In the US, the olive oil wont be the highest source for Vitamin E only because peanuts are more abundant in them.

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#92

Post by tracker1 »

vfc1 wrote: post #89
tracker1 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human body absolutely needs fats... most highly available sources of protein tend to come with 0.5 to 4g of fat per 1g of protein. If you need 80-120g of protein a day, you should probably be getting 40-80g of fats per day. Generally speaking most dietary fat for pre-agricultural man would come from fish, meat or fatty fruits and tree nuts. All of which are/were prevalent and common. As to the sourcing, my own op…

The body needs fats but many plant foods have some fat on it. Oats for example are 17% fat, so if you eat them for breakfast that is a great start. Most nuts and seeds are also almost 100% fat, plus many fruits and vegetables contain some fat. You mention 80-120g of protein a day, that is probably more like 50g. Most people overeat on protein, which leads to all sort of issues like kidney problems, etc. On the other…

I'm not saying people aren't getting enough protein... I use 80-120g as that's the range for a lean body weight of 220#, or 100kg - which is roughly my lean body weight (though mine is wrapped in a protective layer of fat).

Also, getting up to 2x the suggested protein range (minimum is 0.8g:kg to 1.2g:kg) rarely has the complications you mention. I'm also not suggesting that people don't eat general plant food. I'm not big on refined foods overall though, and that includes refined vegetable oils.

Most people are afraid of fat, and specifically animal fat for no good reason. Fatty cuts from grass fed ruminant animals are one of the lowest inflammation foods you can have and eating nose to tail is a very good nutrition balance. For every correlation survey based study associating disease to red meat, there is a much higher correlation to refined grains, sugars and oils.

IMHO, people should eat closer to real/whole foods that they prepare themselves. And imho, this can and should include some meat, fish and plenty of eggs (another food staple that gets a lot of undue negative press).

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#93

Post by closetohome »

sridca wrote: post #86
closetohome wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah yeah, the meat industry has quibbles with the WHO study connecting red meat to cancer. Shocker.

Have you read those studies yet? If not you are wasting your breath away on borrowed beliefs.

I did. It read like a corporate brochure.

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#94

Post by vfc1 »

Sawamara wrote: post #91
vfc1 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common myth, the amount of vitamins in olive oil is very modest compared to other foods. Eating olive oil for vitamins is a bit like smoking for getting oxygen, there are plenty of other ways much healthier to cover those nutritional needs. The body can create fats from carbs and vice-versa but those processes are not metabolically efficient. That is not the main way our body consumes calories. Most commonl…

You keep moving the goalpost. Lets just assume we are on a caloric budget and we deal with fat being fat, so we can, like good third graders in math, just count the calories. No more wiggling around with "too many calories" and "you need to burn calories to transform them to carbs" and then "oh, but it also sticks to your abdomen". Pick one. Stick to that one, and argue with that. Also, yeah, since, for example, coff…

The problem is that counting calories is completely unsustainable if you are eating a lot of your calories via foods low in satiety like oils, which have very little volume per calorie count.

You will be starving all the time, and won't be able to make it past a month. A lot of satiety comes from the volume that foods takes up in the stomach and oils are the worst food for that.

In order to lose weight, you need foods high in volume and low in calories, so that you feel satiated without overating, and oils are the worst food from that perspective.

Sunflower oil is almost 900 calories per 100g, like olive oil is 120 calories per tablespoon. So one tablespoon of any of those oils has the same calories as a large banana.

Had two tablespoons in the bottom of the pan to fry something, and bam you just added the equivalent of two large bananas to your meal without even noticing.

In the US, the overconsumption of oils and the ton of added hidden calories that they add to a meal is one of the reasons for the obesity epidemic.

Eating oils for vitamins is not a good solution, vitamins are better found directly in greens, vegetables, and fruits. Just eat plenty of fruits and vegetables and you will be OK.

Coffee is not that bad, but a better source of anti-oxidants are red fruits, that can be easily eaten every day at breakfast with oats for example.

Peanuts, for example, which are also mostly fat are a much better source for Vitamin E because its a whole food, it's not an extract. Together with vitamin E you are getting a lot of other nutrients.

Peanut oil, on the other hand would be a bad choice, because it's an extract of a whole food.

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#95

Post by sridca »

closetohome wrote: post #93
sridca wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read those studies yet? If not you are wasting your breath away on borrowed beliefs.

I did. It read like a corporate brochure.

I'm referring to the studies behind the "science" you claim to back up that a plant based diet is both better for [...] health reasons than a meat based diet.

Unless you have read those studies, before seeing how much bullshit is behind them, you'd be wasting your breath away on borrowed beliefs.

But then I doubt you are capable of doing it, as even a scientific review appears as "corporate brochure" to you.

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#96

Post by closetohome »

sridca wrote: post #95
closetohome wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did. It read like a corporate brochure.

I'm referring to the studies behind the "science" you claim to back up that a plant based diet is both better for [...] health reasons than a meat based diet. Unless you have read those studies, before seeing how much bullshit is behind them, you'd be wasting your breath away on borrowed beliefs. But then I doubt you are capable of doing it, as even a scientific review appears as "corporate brochure" to you.

Trust me - I'm considerably more knowledgable on this topic than yourself. Agro industry propaganda always looks the same.

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#97

Post by vfc1 »

Sawamara wrote: post #90
vfc1 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The body needs fats but many plant foods have some fat on it. Oats for example are 17% fat, so if you eat them for breakfast that is a great start. Most nuts and seeds are also almost 100% fat, plus many fruits and vegetables contain some fat. You mention 80-120g of protein a day, that is probably more like 50g. Most people overeat on protein, which leads to all sort of issues like kidney problems, etc. On the other…

You are bullshitting against fats and vegetables, for what reason I do not know. But nuts and seeds are NOT "almost 100%" percent fat. They range from fat contents of 30g to upwards 70-75g per 100g (walnuts, for example, are on a higher end of this, so are hazelnuts. Almonds, pistachio are the middle ground, while peanuts - technically legume, I know -are on the lower side. The rest? 8-10 percent carbs, 10g+ fiber (s…

Yes indeed almost 100% is an exaggeration, nuts are in general mostly fat, typically 70% to 80%. I think they are an awesome food by the way, shown to be very healthy, unlike oil.

Its very different eating nuts from eating oil, because nuts are whole foods, you are getting a lot more than the fat when you eat a nut, as you mention.

But they are to be eaten in moderation, not by the bags.

The quote about olive oil I heard in one of Dr McDougall videos on oil on YouTube, although which video I cannot tell.

Probably in this video he will talk about it, it's his longest video on oil - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptF0KuF8xHU&t=74s

Anyway, my bottom line is that oil is not a health food, unlike popular belief.

Reasons being: it's almost only liquid fat with little nutritional content (those vitamins can be easily obtained elsewhere), and it's the number one source of hidden calories in food and one of the multiple causes for the obesity epidemic in the west.

Easting olives is healthy, but eating olive oil is not. Eating an extract of a food is very different from eating the whole food.

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#98

Post by vfc1 »

tracker1 wrote: post #92
vfc1 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The body needs fats but many plant foods have some fat on it. Oats for example are 17% fat, so if you eat them for breakfast that is a great start. Most nuts and seeds are also almost 100% fat, plus many fruits and vegetables contain some fat. You mention 80-120g of protein a day, that is probably more like 50g. Most people overeat on protein, which leads to all sort of issues like kidney problems, etc. On the other…

I'm not saying people aren't getting enough protein... I use 80-120g as that's the range for a lean body weight of 220#, or 100kg - which is roughly my lean body weight (though mine is wrapped in a protective layer of fat). Also, getting up to 2x the suggested protein range (minimum is 0.8g:kg to 1.2g:kg) rarely has the complications you mention. I'm also not suggesting that people don't eat general plant food. I'm n…

You should look after your health more, if you are young it won't affect but wait until you hit 40.

Just saying, if you weight 100kg, even if you would be 2 meters tall you would still be overweight.

You can check that according to any BMI calculator like this one https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmi...

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#99

Post by sridca »

closetohome wrote: post #96
sridca wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm referring to the studies behind the "science" you claim to back up that a plant based diet is both better for [...] health reasons than a meat based diet. Unless you have read those studies, before seeing how much bullshit is behind them, you'd be wasting your breath away on borrowed beliefs. But then I doubt you are capable of doing it, as even a scientific review appears as "corporate brochure" to you.

Trust me - I'm considerably more knowledgable on this topic than yourself. Agro industry propaganda always looks the same.

So if you are "more knowledgeable on this topic" than me, why are you continuing to evade my question on whether you have actually read the studies behind the "science" you claim to back up that a plant based diet is both better for health reasons than a meat based diet? Moreover, if you are "more knowledgeable on this topic" than me why is it that a scientific review by Dr. David M Klurfeld appears "like a corporate brochure" to you?

Re: Beyond Meat and Impossible Foods Are the Trans Fat Purveyors of Our Generation

#100

Post by dang »

sridca wrote: post #95
closetohome wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did. It read like a corporate brochure.

I'm referring to the studies behind the "science" you claim to back up that a plant based diet is both better for [...] health reasons than a meat based diet. Unless you have read those studies, before seeing how much bullshit is behind them, you'd be wasting your breath away on borrowed beliefs. But then I doubt you are capable of doing it, as even a scientific review appears as "corporate brochure" to you.

If you continue to break the site guidelines like this, we will ban you.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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