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Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#91

Post by yen223 »

knolax wrote: post #87
headsupftw wrote: post #75

In terms of Chinese names, my observation is that in English media, if your name is printed as "first_name last_name" then you haven't made it yet. But if you are somebody, your name will appear as "last_name first_name". E.g. Xi Jinping, Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping. When was the last time you heard "Ming Yao the former Rockets center"?

All four of the people you used as examples were born in the Mainland and had always used that order. Do you have any examples of people switching from Firstname Lastname to Lastname Firstname after "making it"?

It's not about switching your name after you've made it. It's about western media taking the effort to print your name in the correct order because you've made it.

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#92

Post by lifeisstillgood »

I think this is the start of the hockey stick graph in the unicode-ification of the world

We are becoming a closer more integrated world and we will find it waaaaay easier to have common shared conventions and regulations - but that does not mean we all choose an existing one, (ie cultural hegemony) we just migrate to a new one, more complex perhaps but one that fits (more or less) everybody.

It's fascinating (been fighting unicode legacy issues today so it's top of mind)

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#93

Post by Permit »

headsupftw wrote: post #75

In terms of Chinese names, my observation is that in English media, if your name is printed as "first_name last_name" then you haven't made it yet. But if you are somebody, your name will appear as "last_name first_name". E.g. Xi Jinping, Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping. When was the last time you heard "Ming Yao the former Rockets center"?

Jack Ma seems like a counter example.

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#94

Post by lmm »

RandallBrown wrote: post #89
zapzupnz wrote: post #40

This is fantastic. Living in both the English and Japanese-speaking worlds, it'll be nice not having to go through mental gymnastics to remember how to call somebody in whichever language. I think consistency is preferable; it's surely not impossible for people to be educated on name order.

I have a friend who is (I guess) Japanese-American. Someone like his great-great-grandfather was Japanese and the family name has been passed down, but for all intents and purposes, he's a white American. How would his name be written?

The same way he orders it - whether in Japan or in America. Japanese people don't flip the order of the names Americans call themselves. We should extend them the same courtesy.

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#96

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

zapzupnz wrote: post #44
knolax wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't see how it "It disregards the cultural history of names". As far as I'm concerned the order of the names is just a minor grammatical difference.

One person cannot speak for an entire gamut of people. There will be people for whom the way one says their name is not a simple matter of grammar but of identity, pride, family history, etc. The Japanese respect the rest of the world enough not to reverse our names — Brad Pitt doesn't become Pitt Brad — so there's no reason why we cannot accord the same back. There may also be great personal meaning or even simple w…

But a lot of people do come only family name. I'm not sure if it's different in America, but everyone is using Obama, Bush, Häkkinen etc. Heck a lot of people don't even know their first names here. You can say that it's because they are famous, but I'm just trying to outline there are differences. No one close to them they in real life would refer them by family name.

Putin's passports says Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin yet everyone is using either Vladimir Putin or just Putin, but Russians don't. (In formal letters etc).

The problem is that there are way too many differences alone in the Western world, you can't satisfy everyone's feelings.

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#97

Post by klodolph »

dsr_ wrote: post #78
xucheng wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this works well in writing and it is common practice in Eastern Asia. However, how about oral conversation? Sometimes, I am not sure what is the proper way to introduce my Chinese name in English conversations? If I put family name at first, it would confuse English speakers. If I put given name first, the sound of my name feels so weird to me as that is not what I heard outside English environments.

"Hello, I'm Cheng Xu. Please call me Cheng." or "Hello, I'm Xu Cheng. Please call me Cheng." solves the problem either way.

Well, it doesn't solve the problem of communicating whether you are using the family name or given name, which is an important piece of information to know since it indicates the level of familiarity / intimacy / distance. This distinction is a bit less common for personal conversations in English-speaking countries but important in many parts of the world.

Perhaps I would be talking to "Cheng", but later I would be talking about "Professor Cheng".

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#98

Post by lmm »

stordoff wrote: post #5

What I find interesting is that there are exceptions to the current practice in English. Yoko Taro (family name: Yoko) is known widely as Yoko Taro, yet most other Japanese game developers are known as GivenName FamilyName (in English). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoko_Taro

I think reversing names was only ever something "official"/"respectable" translators did. Names that came up in a more casual/fan-based context first have stuck with Japanese order.

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#99

Post by pacoWebConsult »

Permit wrote: post #93
headsupftw wrote: post #75

In terms of Chinese names, my observation is that in English media, if your name is printed as "first_name last_name" then you haven't made it yet. But if you are somebody, your name will appear as "last_name first_name". E.g. Xi Jinping, Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping. When was the last time you heard "Ming Yao the former Rockets center"?

Jack Ma seems like a counter example.

That's because Jack is an English name he chose to be widely known by. If he had kept his given name as a primary form of address we'd probably see him colloquially referred to as "Ma" or "Ma Yun".

Re: Foreign Minister Taro Kono to ask media to switch order of Japanese names

#100

Post by headsupftw »

Permit wrote: post #93
headsupftw wrote: post #75

In terms of Chinese names, my observation is that in English media, if your name is printed as "first_name last_name" then you haven't made it yet. But if you are somebody, your name will appear as "last_name first_name". E.g. Xi Jinping, Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping. When was the last time you heard "Ming Yao the former Rockets center"?

Jack Ma seems like a counter example.

Not really a good counter example as "Jack Ma" is his English name (i.e. not his legal name, not the one printed on his passport. more like a nickname that can be easily remembered by westerners).

If you google his legal Chinese name, you will find that it's never "Yun Ma" in English media. Instead it's always "Ma Yun"...because he is a big shot.

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