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South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

koreaherald.com

91–100 of 282 posts

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#91

I doubt this will work out. They also tried that in many countries, they all go back to using Windows. I hate Windows, but I can envision how much money AND time it's gonna cost them to move out, and I'm sure that they will either run out of money before they do the transition, or machines would have already dominated the earth before they are done with this "transition"l I would believe it much more if they said tha…

There's also the sheer political force that Microsoft brings to bear against Linux every time this kind of thing comes up.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#92
At this rate, it really feels like the next version of Windows will be derived from some Unix os. Windows 8 and onwards has been an unmitigated IT disaster. Windows Server is meh. I once ran Ubuntu mate with a windows theme on a computer terminal in a computer lab, and everybody clamored to use it since it was faster, better at printing, and never bluescreened. (That particular model was forced into "obselecence" by windows 10).

Just throw a custom graphical shell over a hardened Unix os, then use Valve's proton project for application comparability. You could be so rich using other people's work Microsoft.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#93

What does 'Linux OS' mean? Various Linux desktop distros? If so, have mercy on anyone who will be using Ubuntu Desktop for the first time. I hope they aren't afraid of using Terminal, because the internet will shout them down for wanting a GUI solution. Love Ubuntu server, but could never get into linux desktop.

The elitism can be absurd. Sometimes I wonder if it's stockholm syndrome. "You want to configure things with a GUI with discoverability? Not read a dissertation-length man page and edit config files whose syntax changes between versions so you can't even rely on google results? Go back to winbl0ws"

I have a theory on why guides in Linux are predominantly text based and it has nothing to do with elitism.

I think it’s a mixture of two factors:

1. From the perspective of the writer, it’s much easier to describe instructions via text when publishing those instructions via a predominately text-based medium such as web sites. The alternative is taking screenshots and editing those images to highlight relevant widgets. This is more time consuming and not ever site offers an easy way to upload those images (meaning you’re then sometimes having to manually upload them) nor even embed them into the discussion (eg HN). And on top of that, you still need some text to accompany the images anyway. So you might as well go with a text driven solution. And if you’re having to describe a UI in text, it’s obviously going to be easier to do so with a text based UI than a graphical UI.

This is a problem I’ve personally experienced as someone who used to write a lot of documentation for graphical UIs. It can be annoying and remember that a lot of time, people providing guides are those volunteering their time. So naturally people will opt for a lazier approach.

2. The other major factor for why I think CLI instructions are so common even on desktop Linux is because there isn’t a single agreed standard desktop environment. Not even a standard GUI toolkit, let alone DE. Arguments about whether this choice / fragmentation is a net good or bad thing aside; it makes much more sense to offer a guide that is going to be more universal (as the CLI on Linux tends to be - notwithstanding some district-specific file system hierarchies). Where as a guide with images will not only be very specific to using that unique management tool but would also be subject to any changes to the UI of that tool even if the underlying configuration files haven’t changed. So with CLI examples you end up with a guide that is not only more universal but also has greater longevity. The longevity point is something that can frustrate less technically capable Windows users who are left confused each time Microsoft decide to redesign their Control Panel applets (et al) and Linux isn’t any less subject to UI changes in its graphical frontends either. So it does make some sense to provide instructions to configuring things directly in the backend - even if it seems counterintuitive to a desktop user.

Ultimately though, I don’t see anyone who uses Linux being rude about those who use GUIs. At worst they might recommend using the CLI if someone has tried configuring something from a GUI and found themselves getting stuck because options aren’t getting applied in a way that was being expected. However there are examples when the reverse is also true. For example on HN a few weeks ago some CLI users moaning about the complexity of kemu was repeatedly (and rightfully) recommended to use a frontend instead.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#94

What does 'Linux OS' mean? Various Linux desktop distros? If so, have mercy on anyone who will be using Ubuntu Desktop for the first time. I hope they aren't afraid of using Terminal, because the internet will shout them down for wanting a GUI solution. Love Ubuntu server, but could never get into linux desktop.

Come on, this is not accurate. My wife, a journalist employed in the local university and my mother, a shop owner, use Ubuntu every day and have never used the terminal. The demographic that has needs more advanced than the basic desktop functionality will indeed use AskUbuntu and the terminal, but we have to recognize ourselves as niche. Most office workers will use a browser and very little else.

Would have been so nice if that were the case - Chrome/Firefox work atleast as well on Linux as on Windows if not better. But Outlook has a vice grip on office scene and has no real equivalent on Linux side in terms of feature parity.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will be too much work. Why not use well maintained existing distros?

I've never understood the clamour for rolling a new distro. Maintaining an apt/yum repository and creating a meta-package or package group should be more than enough.

The fact that you think of Linux distros as apt/yum tells a lot about the bias in our statements.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#97
post #35
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I got older and life lost some color, but the difference between Windows 10 and Windows 7 doesn't feel like the difference between 7 and XP. Seems like most of the action (outside gaming and Office power users) has moved to browsers and browser wrappers.

Same for me, although it might be because I also switched to Linux in parallel. XP was just perfect and there was no reason to change, yet 7 came along and if you want the best protection you need to be up to date. While 7 didn't bring anything for me beyond different skins, it did its job. Windows 10? Man I feel like I'm on an ad-infested website and I need to be careful of where I click. But I'm definitely not obje…

> XP was just perfect and there was no reason to change

Lolz, I heard that already... with Windows 2000. So many (me included) spent serious time trying to strip XP of all the crap, because "Win2000 was just perfect".

In reality, XP (like 2000) was just another pile of shit. They patched the hell out of it with SP2, and still it would get owned and owned.

Vista and Windows 7 have made using Windows much safer, and Win 7 refined the interface enough to be a substantial improvement over XP. Win 7 was probably the pinnacle of pre-touch/pre-cloud Microsoft.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#98
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will be too much work. Why not use well maintained existing distros?

Why would that be too much work? I expect total cost of ownership for the government distro to be way less, than using those "well maintained" ones.

I say they use Arch Linux, automate the install and management using some DevOps and call it a day. it already supports pretty much every piece of modern software under the sun.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#99
post #8

I used to support our office in S. Korea. It's true they depend super heavily on ActiveX and other weird applets/software that runs only on Windows and/or IE. A lot of the communication with the government (yearly tax submission) as well as banking software would not run on our Linux or OSX devices, and so we had these 'loaner' windows 'tax machines' that got reimaged every few days that people could use to do their…

It was actually worse than that when I lived in Korea. It wasn't just Windows that you needed, it was Korean Windows . I thought I'd be okay because I was running dual boot machines with Linux and Windows. Nope. Windows purchased in the US simply did not work with many of the sites. (My understanding is that most software written for commerce/government sites had Korean people that purchased a Windows computer in Kor…

I lived in Korea between 2010 and 2015 and I never needed the Korean version of Windows. Even my work computer was running the en-US version. Your just need to switch the default locale and codepage for the occasional poorly written software (mostly old installers), it just takes a reboot.
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