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60 days in jail for not paying a $2.75 subway fare costs the city $22,000

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Re: 60 days in jail for not paying a $2.75 subway fare costs the city $22,000

#91
post #11

"I could demonstrate to you that every single bank robbery, that in every single case practically, the cost of the police was more than the actual money that the robbers took from the bank. Does that mean, 'Oh, you see, there's really no economic interest involved, then. They're not protecting the banks. The police are just doing this because they're on a power trip, or they're macho, or they're control freaks, that'…

yea but the real theives here are the comptrollers of the mta and many other people pushing corruption and theft and double dealing. this is why the mta is falling apart. this is why it costs 1 BILLION dollars to build a new subway station. yes , 1 billion. for one train line station. not a like a major station, just a stop on a line extension.

peak corruption at the top leads to higher prices and less money for enforcement. so you get a massive spike in fare beating mostly by people who cannot afford it.

i would argue that enforcement should be extreme for quality of life in the subway and harshly punished. fare beating though is not the problem....

in fact, it is loud playing of music (still) and homeless people smelling up the subway, and people EATING on the train and this kind of thing. it should be harshly punished with jail time or worse, just massive fines backed by jail time.

this way, the cost of cleaning the subway and making it useful for use will go down as those not willing to respect their fellow strap hangers will go broke if they refuse to do so. also more cameras in the subway for violations of subway code of ethics.

fare beating IS associated with delinquency, but it is the only thing i would say almost makes sense. you WANT people using the subway, not cars, not cabs, not even busses. it's zero emission at point of travel. powered by electric. it's what you want people depending on . and we don't have the sophistication quite yet to deploy a pay what you cann afford system. and frankly, i hope we never do. you wanna fare beat, go ahead. if you get caught on the spot, you should get a warning and a 100 dollar fine. not jail. if you don't pay fines, you get a warrant. and it should be punished with 100 hours of compelled service cleaning the subway. that's what makes sense!

Re: 60 days in jail for not paying a $2.75 subway fare costs the city $22,000

#92
Good. Jail for such an infraction is fucking absurd. The city should change its stupid laws. I wish it cost more, really. This is what the city government wishes to use its monopoly on violence on? Say the turnstile hopper doesn't stop then gets into a chase that ends up with either him or the cop dead. Would that be worth it? Would the city reconsider its dumbass laws then? A simple fine would be plenty.

Re: 60 days in jail for not paying a $2.75 subway fare costs the city $22,000

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the French system of school lunches. Every student has a card to pay for lunch. The exact price charged is on a sliding scale depending on family income. One child has no idea what the other is charged, it's just a swipe of the card. You're also not allowed to bring your own lunch to eat in the cafeteria, but that system can work out okay when you have dedicated chefs at each school, and cheap good cheese (and…

>One child has no idea what the other is charged, it's just a swipe of the card. I disagree with this assertion. If everyone knows the rules of the game, there will be plenty of guesswork as to how much whom is paying. "Just" a swipe of the card does not make social inequality evaporate. And, in my personal experience, this leads to more prejudice, not less. To me, this screams oversimplification by the state (or who…

Is it perfect? No. Is it better than most other systems to inequality? Yes.

There’s little difference between this system and a system of direct payments to address the inequality.

This system also eliminates the potential of the family squandering any direct payments.

Re: 60 days in jail for not paying a $2.75 subway fare costs the city $22,000

#94
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the French system of school lunches. Every student has a card to pay for lunch. The exact price charged is on a sliding scale depending on family income. One child has no idea what the other is charged, it's just a swipe of the card. You're also not allowed to bring your own lunch to eat in the cafeteria, but that system can work out okay when you have dedicated chefs at each school, and cheap good cheese (and…

Not allowed to bring your own? You think this is a good thing? God forbid I make some food at home. Sounds like a protection racket to me or a social equality experiment gone crazy.

If the provided lunch is any good, then yes, a good thing.

Could some families afford the cost and time of providing a better 2-4 course lunch every day? Sure, but most won’t.

Re: 60 days in jail for not paying a $2.75 subway fare costs the city $22,000

#95
post #11

"I could demonstrate to you that every single bank robbery, that in every single case practically, the cost of the police was more than the actual money that the robbers took from the bank. Does that mean, 'Oh, you see, there's really no economic interest involved, then. They're not protecting the banks. The police are just doing this because they're on a power trip, or they're macho, or they're control freaks, that'…

You can't compare bank robbery, it's usually done with force or threat of force. The tellers are usually traumatized...

Re: 60 days in jail for not paying a $2.75 subway fare costs the city $22,000

#96
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the French system of school lunches. Every student has a card to pay for lunch. The exact price charged is on a sliding scale depending on family income. One child has no idea what the other is charged, it's just a swipe of the card. You're also not allowed to bring your own lunch to eat in the cafeteria, but that system can work out okay when you have dedicated chefs at each school, and cheap good cheese (and…

Not allowed to bring your own? You think this is a good thing? God forbid I make some food at home. Sounds like a protection racket to me or a social equality experiment gone crazy.

I don't think the children are making food at home, and it seems entirely reasonable to prevent rich parents from giving food to their preferred children. If you can't fight generational inequality in a small thing, how can you fight generational inequality in big things like inheritance?

Re: 60 days in jail for not paying a $2.75 subway fare costs the city $22,000

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person who can't afford $2 is now going to pay $50? From where? How?

Have them spend a shift cleaning garbage. Done.

I see we're leaning real hard into that "except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted" thing.

Re: 60 days in jail for not paying a $2.75 subway fare costs the city $22,000

#98
post #96
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not allowed to bring your own? You think this is a good thing? God forbid I make some food at home. Sounds like a protection racket to me or a social equality experiment gone crazy.

I don't think the children are making food at home, and it seems entirely reasonable to prevent rich parents from giving food to their preferred children. If you can't fight generational inequality in a small thing, how can you fight generational inequality in big things like inheritance?

I suspect the rich kids go to private boarding schools no? The policy hurts the upper end of the average kids.

Re: 60 days in jail for not paying a $2.75 subway fare costs the city $22,000

#99

Everyone's getting hung up on the 22k, but 60 days in jail for jumping a turnstile is insane at any price.

I agree completely. If I were sentenced to even a week in jail for jumping a turnstile, I'd still feel like they'd thrown the book at me.

Re: 60 days in jail for not paying a $2.75 subway fare costs the city $22,000

#100
post #11

"I could demonstrate to you that every single bank robbery, that in every single case practically, the cost of the police was more than the actual money that the robbers took from the bank. Does that mean, 'Oh, you see, there's really no economic interest involved, then. They're not protecting the banks. The police are just doing this because they're on a power trip, or they're macho, or they're control freaks, that'…

Despite quoting that I'm not a hardcore leftist (anymore). I don't see that as a leftist quote. The police aren't supposed to be a profit center.

Well the man who said it is a leftist, and was making a leftist point overall. But out of context it is more of a neutral analysis.
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