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Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

nintendolife.com

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Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#91

Post by CobrastanJorji »

ppseafield wrote: post #28
saidajigumi wrote: post #16

The narrative in the article also misses the following point, which I've seen many times over the years, in both game dev and non-game dev shops: It is massively unprofessional to ship an Easter Egg without broad consent to do so. Planning a fun "secret" for your users? Great! Surprising people involved in the publishing pipeline , esp. in a "will I get caught" way? Not so great. That's where Rajan went off the rails…

Indeed. Although this isn't sexually explicit, it reminds me of the trouble Rockstar got in after the Hot Coffee fiasco. Their publisher had to pay out hundreds of millions of dollars. (Edit: pkroll is correct, the final penalties were $21 million.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Coffee_mod

Everything about that scandal was stupid. In an M rated game (recommended for 17 and older), the protagonist could date women, be invited into their homes, and then the player would hear the sounds of the characters having sex. Fine, whatever. The game also allowed the player to sleep with prostitutes on the street to regain health, which would either cost them money or, if the player completed missions to become their pimp, earn them money.

The revelation that, in addition to those kinds of sex, a crude sex minigame could be revealed, if one made a bit flip to a config file with the help of third party software or hardware, led to:

* $21 million in penalties.

* The city of Los Angeles suing the company.

* A class action lawsuit whose initial plaintiff was a lady who bought the game for her 14 year old grandson, which would end with 2700 claimants being compensated.

* Hillary Clinton calling on the FTC to "take immediate action."

* Senator Lieberman, working with Clinton, proposed a law making the sale of violent games to children a federal crime.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#92

Post by beenBoutIT »

zach_garwood wrote: post #39
robrtsql wrote: post #4

> The apps would be tied to the game itself, and would only be able to run when loading up that game, but you can see why Nintendo would take issue with its implementation. I have a few guesses, but no, I don't see why Nintendo took issue with this. Is it because users could damage their devices with access to something like this? Is it because this could somehow be used to undermine Nintendo's DRM or cheat in online…

I agree. I can see Nintendo being upset because it's not a game, but I'm failing to see why this is such a big deal?

Because Nintendo prides itself on being the least hackable/least interesting gaming console on the market.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#93

Post by strangecasts »

Lowkeyloki wrote: post #76

What about people who already bought it? Does it stay installed on their consoles? And if they uninstall it, can they download it again? It's probably moot because I'd expect Nintendo to demand a patched version of the game with Ruby removed to replace the existing version for those who bought it even if Nintendo decides not to allow it up on the store again.

I can't remember them pulling games off consoles - when people discovered games allowing code execution on the 3DS, Nintendo either marked patches as mandatory as soon as they were ready (so you couldn't play without updating) or attempted to block the exploit on the OS side (as they did with Cubic Ninja, since the studio behind it shuttered)

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#94

Post by minimaxir »

baroffoos wrote: post #87
roblabla wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The implementation is based on mruby, which is riddled with bugs. I spent some time reversing A Dark Room before it got removed. I am confident that there are bugs allowing ROP, from which point getting CFW is a matter of privesc. We have privesc to bootrom on every firmware version up to 7.x (inclusive). This is obviously bad for nintendo.

The games themselves run in a sandbox and should not have access to the greater OS, hypervisor or arm trustzone which are on the switch.

"should" is the operative word.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#95

Post by Wowfunhappy »

politician wrote: post #25

That's wild because Super Mario Bros contains a built-in code editor (via arbitrary code execution easter eggs), and Nintendo is OK with that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPcV9uIY5i4

That's arbitrary code execution, but it's not by any stretch a "built-in code editor".

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#96

Post by naikrovek »

jdietrich wrote: post #11

>The narrative that has played out online is exactly what's wrong with this trashcan fire of a world. >Everyone is an armchair expert. Everyone thought the worst. You've seen that I've been called a dick, idiot, and everything in between. Because sensationalised news sells. If the narrative was 'I added a sandbox to A Dark Room that lets you mod the game and provide a medium for kids to code (and technical parents to…

It doesn't allow arbitrary code execution. It allows interpreted code that fits the provided API which does not allow the spawning of new processes.

Very different thing.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#97

Post by xena »

baroffoos wrote: post #87
roblabla wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The implementation is based on mruby, which is riddled with bugs. I spent some time reversing A Dark Room before it got removed. I am confident that there are bugs allowing ROP, from which point getting CFW is a matter of privesc. We have privesc to bootrom on every firmware version up to 7.x (inclusive). This is obviously bad for nintendo.

The games themselves run in a sandbox and should not have access to the greater OS, hypervisor or arm trustzone which are on the switch.

Assuming the jar has no holes. The jar apparently has holes and the brain inside it can peek out.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#98

Post by naikrovek »

ggggtez wrote: post #17

I wasn't able to find their developer policy, but I'd assume this is a pretty cut and dry case of violating the policies he agreed to when he submitted the game for review. Nintendo is very protective of running pirated or unofficial games, ever since the late 80's, when knock-off games were rampant and leading up to today with DRM. I'm sure it's against their policies to sell a game where users are allowed to write…

https://developer.nintendo.com/

To get an account there, you must agree to a few things, one being an NDA, and to get a Switch dev kit you must agree to a few more things, as well as go through a case-by-case evaluation of your game idea, if you are not an established game developer.

We won't be seeing the agreement(s) that were likely broken, and if you can see them, you are under NDA.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#99

Post by beenBoutIT »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #26
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #13

And this is what happens when people don't own the hardware they buy. Instead, they get awful DRM'ed bullshit, with a monopolistic store 'owner' digitally forcing whatever they say on their fiefdom. The first computer I had access to had BASIC built in. Having control of a computer of what runs and not is an absolute basic right of ownership. And from these computers called "game consoles", you the purchaser have non…

What surprises me is the number of people who seem to be agreeing with Nintendo in this case. I guess the Overton window is shifting away from a position of software freedom; which is unfortunate. :-/

Nintendo is the video game equivalent of Lincoln Logs. There are people who find freedom in the constraint provided by the lack of configuration possibilities offered by a pile of Lincoln Logs. LEGOs are infinitely more complicated and full of possibilities, but they're going to frustrate the hell out of a Lincoln Log enthusiast.

Re: Indie Game Removed from Switch After Dev Reveals It Has a Hidden Code Editor

#100

Post by beenBoutIT »

Jonnax wrote: post #71
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #13

And this is what happens when people don't own the hardware they buy. Instead, they get awful DRM'ed bullshit, with a monopolistic store 'owner' digitally forcing whatever they say on their fiefdom. The first computer I had access to had BASIC built in. Having control of a computer of what runs and not is an absolute basic right of ownership. And from these computers called "game consoles", you the purchaser have non…

The difference is that I know that I'm not buying a general purpose computer when I buy a console. And I'm perfectly fine with that. It's an entertainment device. I have plenty of things that I can run my code on.

I'm pretty sure even RMS would agree, a game console is a single purpose device not unlike a toaster oven.
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