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The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

wired.com

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Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#91

Post by RenRav »

manigandham wrote: post #71
justsee wrote: post #47

I think the privacy crowd drawn to Brave couldn't care less what the (current) digital advertising industry wants. Anyone who's been involved in the current ad-tech industry knows it's a total tire fire of fraud, technical incompetence and deep hostility to end-users. Brave's model is very interesting and also a threat to the current ad-tech cesspool, so there should be no surprise to see attempts to misinform people…

If you want advertisers, you need to care about what the industry wants. Obviously that's for Brave to deal with, not the users, but showing ads for money is an ad network. Microtransactions have been tried many times. I spent half a million testing it. Didn't work because of user behavior. And unless users are buying with their own money, it's just converting the BAT they earn from ads into BAT they pay the publishe…

I have a massive 10-years old block filter and never tolerated ads, but Brave changed this. I think now advertisers can make money off me finally. The majority of brave users will be past ad-blockers, so advertisers can now make some money from this group. I don't want to do anything with the BAT, I just want to see how advertisers respond and see how it progresses. I can't wait to see ads on my phone for once.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#92

Post by justsee »

RandomBacon wrote: post #70
justsee wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually people can buy and sell BAT. They just can't convert any BAT rewarded for ad participation into fiat right now. It's on the roadmap though, but even then you'll have to go through KYC AML providers so there'll be no option of anonymous earnings.

Is BAT trackable? (I think it's an Ethereum token right, thus trackable?) When BAT is paid out to people surfing the web, does someone knows what ads they saw, maybe what webpages they visited to see those ads?

BAT activity for user rewards etc happens off-chain at the moment, but I think the plan is to move it all on-chain when Ethereum can support that level of activity.

A user model is built on-device to allow for opt-in targeted ads, but that model does not leak across the wire.

Because the user model is not bound by a security sandbox, it can build a much richer model of user behaviour than even the most invasive ad-tech solutions that exist right now.

So Brave claims end-users get more relevant, targeted ads and more privacy, because this model can't be accessed off-device.

It sounds good in theory, and now ads are live we'll get to see how true it is in practice.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#93

Post by trevelyan »

manigandham wrote: post #23

Brave is just an intermediary that replaces ads with other ads. It's an adnetwork delivered as a browser that creates ad inventory on top of the page instead of within it. That being said, the tokens are basically worthless. This is not what the digital advertising industry wants and Brave is not going to get any decent advertisers with this. They'll end up with the same shady affiliate/performance marketers running…

I think Saito (saito.tech) has the better approach. Surely the problem with the Brave model isn't that they are hijacking the browser so much as that they're just replacing who is in the monopolistic position. Better to let anyone in the world setup an advertising network and let anyone receive adverts from anyone else.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#94

Post by [deleted] »

woodandsteel wrote: post #50

There's a lot of negativity here about brave. But the fact is that the web desperately needs a new financial model, and as far as I can tell brave is a lot further along on that than any other project. Would anyone like to argue that the present web financial model is fine? Or would anyone like to point to someone else who has an alternative that would be workable and is anywhere near usable? And let met add one more…

[deleted]

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#95

Post by solveit »

RandomBacon wrote: post #70
justsee wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually people can buy and sell BAT. They just can't convert any BAT rewarded for ad participation into fiat right now. It's on the roadmap though, but even then you'll have to go through KYC AML providers so there'll be no option of anonymous earnings.

Is BAT trackable? (I think it's an Ethereum token right, thus trackable?) When BAT is paid out to people surfing the web, does someone knows what ads they saw, maybe what webpages they visited to see those ads?

Re first question: That is correct. BAT is trackable as are all Ethereum tokens. But Ethereum 2.0 is planned to allow much more powerful privacy features, so it's not clear what choices BAT will make when the option is available.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#96

Post by arcticbull »

justsee wrote: post #86
arcticbull wrote: post #54

My understanding is they’ve been taking money “on behalf of creators” who never signed up and pocketing it. That’s reason enough for me to not use the product. Sounds like it could be construed as fraud. Eich got pretty defensive on Twitter and this whole thing came up here before too [2]. [1] https://www.theblockcrypto.com/2018/12/24/brave-browser-is-c... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18736759

Actually that's not true. An earlier version of the browser let early adopter users direct where Brave's own marketing budget of BAT tokens was sent to, including sites that hadn't yet signed up. If those sites didn't sign up, the tokens would eventually go back into the marketing budget pool of tokens, to be distributed to other sites (not to Brave). That's very different to the mischaraterisation you mention above,…

Sounds like it wasn’t much of a mischaracterization if there was a bunch of outrage and then they backtracked completely.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#97

Post by krapp »

MarcScott wrote: post #60

I don't think that this kind of thing is the solution, but when I click on a link on HN, in a browser with no blockers installed, and I see this - https://ibb.co/jhDfC5k I can't help but believe the web is broken, and we need some sort of fix.

I hate ads as much as any reasonable person, but I don't think this is an example of the web being broken. Wired is a magazine, it shouldn't be at all surprising that they would try to monetize their content. They have the right to be as obnoxious as they like about it.

What's broken is the model of advertising on the web, the unregulated cesspool of greed, malware, tracking and dark patterns that led the public to inevitably reject ads wholesale as soon as it became widely known that it was possible to do so, and easy to implement.

It's business and corporate interests that have to find a way to survive on the web, but the web itself will be fine with or without them.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#98

Post by Helloworldboy »

winningcontinue wrote: post #4

former user of their product. originally presented to me as a chrome alternative with the ad-block built right into the browser itself and not as a javascript extension. But as the product has evolved, they've changed in ways to monetize it themselves. While they still block ads, they're deciding which ads they want to block now based on how sponsors compensate them. As a bonus, they're throwing you back a bone to pu…

It’s opt-in for ads.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#99

Post by Helloworldboy »

turdnagel wrote: post #52

I find these kind of bait-and-switches to be really tasteless. Company X is created originally with the sole purpose of blocking ads and privacy trackers - and then decides to monetize using some kind of "good" ad. (I'm looking at you, AdBlock Plus.)

Ads are opt in and this has been the stated plan basically since the beginning.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#100

Post by katzgrau »

atomical wrote: post #78
tssva wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blocking someone's means of income and then telling them they can get some of it back if they change their business model so revenues now flow through you isn't opt-in economic activity. It is extorted economic activity.

A lot of that income is from tracking users, storing that data, and then selling it. I don't feel one ounce of sympathy for them.

You're lumping all publishers together. Brave blocks static banner ads whether they track you or not - whether they're served by an ad network or not. Whether it's delivered by a for-profit or non-profit.

Brave's stated model is disingenuous at best.

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