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Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

nytimes.com

91–100 of 211 posts

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Location data can also be used to help prove your innocence. I can retain receipts from gas stations, getting a soda at the corner store, etc without needing to beam my realtime location data to the cloud.

I've never seen a gas station receipt with a timestamp. Is that common in other places?

To be honest I don't recall either but some places do have a timestamp. (Restaurants being a big one)

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should also be unlawful to dismiss an employee because they were arrested and never indicted. I disagree. The cost of bad policing shouldn't be paid for by businesses. The police should bear the consequences, not have yet another victim (some business) to burden with more punishment.

An arrest of the sort we are talking about is a form of extra-judicial punishment that should be forbidden by any just system of law. In fact, I am constantly surprised at the things that are allowed, and even encouraged, in our judicial system, and how many individuals apparently believe the system is fine the way it is. Saying that we should continue to allow people to be fired for an arrest is to further support t…

This a misunderstanding of what I am saying. I don't think the existing system is fine.

Fix the judicial system itself, don't offload that responsibility onto businesses. If arresting a person is so easy as to be able to ruin their life (and I agree that it is), there should be a higher bar to arresting people than .

If a system is conceived in which a business is able to fire and quickly rehire someone who was wronged by the police, I am supportive of that. But some general idea of, "Well let's just make it illegal for businesses to do that!" is beyond absurd. It's papering over a problem caused by another problem. Businesses are not responsible for fixing a problem caused by the police. This would be as absurd as a business suing the government for failing to prevent a valuable employee from being murdered.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#93
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading that article reminds me of a rather prophetically-accurate movie starring Will Smith and Gene Hackman "Emeny of the State"[0]. Granted, for a film that came out in 1998 it probably wasn't too hard to guess where things were headed w/rt surveillance compared to how seemingly prescient writings from the likes of Orwell and Bradbury were for their respective times. What stands out to me about the movie (because…

Hackman was also in another movie about spying and paranoia - The Conversation. Great movie. I know it’s not about nation states spying but wanted to add that here

Directed by Francis Ford Coppola

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#94

This is for Google Android phone only? Or Apple too? What if the real perp has an iPhone but Apple doesn't provide that info. Meanwhile an innocent who has an Android phone happens to fit the profile 'enough' for the cops to collar him. Sounds pretty much like a lawsuit in waiting...

From the article:

>Investigators who spoke with The New York Times said they had not sent geofence warrants to companies other than Google, and Apple said it did not have the ability to perform those searches.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#95
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh? Thanks for the recommendation, I'm a big fan of Hackman's acting and spy movies especially-lately, so I'll definitely be looking this up. Cheers

I hate to be this off topic, but also 'Heist' is a great movie which features a lot of social engineering and exploitation tactics to drive the plot.

There are 2 films with this title, from 2001 and 2015. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heist_(2001_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heist_(2015_film) Both have stellar casts.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#96
post #19
post #6

Even without Google or Apple, they police have the cell service providers. In the case of the Austin bomber from a year ago[0], police got cell tower records from the multiple bombings and figured out who was at all the locations. Cell phones are little trackers unless you turn them off or don't carry one. [0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna85...

Reading that article reminds me of a rather prophetically-accurate movie starring Will Smith and Gene Hackman "Emeny of the State"[0]. Granted, for a film that came out in 1998 it probably wasn't too hard to guess where things were headed w/rt surveillance compared to how seemingly prescient writings from the likes of Orwell and Bradbury were for their respective times. What stands out to me about the movie (because…

"Eye in the Sky" (2015) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_in_the_Sky_(2015_film) explores this theme as well. A very good film starring Helen Mirren that seems to have slipped under the radar.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#97
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should also be unlawful to dismiss an employee because they were arrested and never indicted. I disagree. The cost of bad policing shouldn't be paid for by businesses. The police should bear the consequences, not have yet another victim (some business) to burden with more punishment.

> bad policing But arresting someone reasonably suspected of some crime isn't bad policing, even if they are later found to be innocent. That is why arrest and trial are separate.

Let's agree to disagree. I think that detaining an innocent person against their will is bad policing.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#98
post #6

Even without Google or Apple, they police have the cell service providers. In the case of the Austin bomber from a year ago[0], police got cell tower records from the multiple bombings and figured out who was at all the locations. Cell phones are little trackers unless you turn them off or don't carry one. [0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna85...

The problem is compounded by the fact that 4G and beyond have location triangulation specific features specially built in to them. The tech is only going to improve as today it isn't as accurate as GPS. I found that this Wikipedia article is a great little read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking

Just read that 5G is going to be exponentially more precise at location tracking than 4G because there will be many, many more base stations with comparatively short range.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#99
post #6

Even without Google or Apple, they police have the cell service providers. In the case of the Austin bomber from a year ago[0], police got cell tower records from the multiple bombings and figured out who was at all the locations. Cell phones are little trackers unless you turn them off or don't carry one. [0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna85...

Next level analysis could take into account which/whose phones are (untypically) switched off when the bombs went off. Next next level would take into account phones that are "left at home" - where the phone is not in use and not moving around according to usual movement patterns.

I would guess that there is already substantial research done on exactly this, and that it is possible to detect many deviations of normal behaviour.

Re: Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police

#100
post #90

I turned off almost all tracking in Android a while ago, but never scanned the data it collected. I recently looked at what data was associated with my Google account, and there I saw: every voice command I ever issued my phone, and when I used what app. I could see at 9:30am I opened my camera app. I can see I viewed a notification at 9:45am. And so on. I deleted it all, but my guess is it probably still lives somew…

In addition to this, if the data exists, at some point in the future it will be compromised. The only way to avoid this is to not collect it.

And to anyone who says “I have nothing to hide” — imagine your worst enemy having all this information about you easily searchable with the intention to weaponize it for their purpose.

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