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996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

chanind.github.io

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Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#91

Post by JimDabell »

apatters wrote: post #24

For those of us who employ developers remotely and ask for a sane number of hours per week (usually 40), does this mean there's an opportunity to hire great developers from China who would like to have better work/life balance? Where would I start?

Two things that seem like they might be impediments:

- Traversing the Great Firewall is slow and unreliable. Having team members on either side of it wouldn't be great for collaboration.

- I seem to remember reading about somebody complaining that sending money to Chinese citizens from abroad can be very difficult. I don't recall the details though.

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#92

Post by aloisdg »

apatters wrote: post #24

For those of us who employ developers remotely and ask for a sane number of hours per week (usually 40), does this mean there's an opportunity to hire great developers from China who would like to have better work/life balance? Where would I start?

A sane number of hours per week is far below 40. In France, we have a 35 hour work week. I am sure we can (and I think we must) go lower without losing much. Less hours for better hours.

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#93

Post by baybal2 »

fasthandle wrote: post #14
sfotm wrote: post #6

Do Chinese workers not have the flexibility to avoid working for companies that force these schedules on them? I know next to nothing about working life in China, but wouldn't workers generally gravitate to the companies that value work/life balance? Is working for these companies just worth the prestige for some?

Yes, and no. IT development is one of the best paying professional jobs in China, commanding 3x to 8x a typical office worker's salary. If you have skills, experience, or for a fresh graduate an interest, in what in the US would be considered a mainstream enterprisy (Java, Angular, .NET) and passable English or Japanese language skills, you can get a position in development with a Fortune 500 or as a contractor to a…

Heh,

And that when a trained factory worker salary is about to break 15000...

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#94

Post by nomercy400 »

I didn't know they had a phrase for long working hours until I read this.

I have done 996 for a while in china, and it wrecks your social life, as now all of a sudden you have no free evenings and only one day in the weekend to balance fun stuff with weekly chores. Meeting friends outside of work is nearly impossible. Also, when near a release, expect to 'give your best' for the company and work on sunday as well.

You do however get 2-hour lunch breaks (i.e. nap time for your chinese colleagues), and about half a hour for dinner which you can also get at or near work.

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#95

Post by xiaoyafeng »

I don't think github is proper place to discuss workers rights. First if China gov block Github eventually, The whole programmer in china would lose a good place to share, learning knowledge. Second, In China, programmers are looked as mid-class, what most of them earn are as ten times as what other persons who work at other area earn. we can't because they speak loudly, then think they are right. they 996 just because they earn much more.

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#96

Post by xiaoyafeng »

Actually, I don't think github is proper place to discuss workers rights. First if China gov block Github eventually, The whole programmer in china would lose a good place to share, learning knowledge. Second, In China, programmers are looked as mid-class, what most of them earn are as ten times as what other persons who work at other area earn. we can't because they speak loudly, then think they are right. they 996 just because they earn much more.

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#97

Post by anoncake »

xiaoyafeng wrote: post #96

Actually, I don't think github is proper place to discuss workers rights. First if China gov block Github eventually, The whole programmer in china would lose a good place to share, learning knowledge. Second, In China, programmers are looked as mid-class, what most of them earn are as ten times as what other persons who work at other area earn. we can't because they speak loudly, then think they are right. they 996…

> First if China gov block Github eventually, The whole programmer in china would lose a good place to share, learning knowledge.

Good. Oppression should make a country less succesfull.

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#98

Post by fasthandle »

est wrote: post #67
j16sdiz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

996 is illegal in China. Tech company do it anyway with no consequences. This is selective enforcement of law.

To clarify, 40 hours was explicitly guaranteed only for civil service staff. For private sectors, working hour is unspecified. However working 996 without compensation is illegal. In theory the employer has to triple hour fee for >40h over time.

Overtime in mainland China is hard-ceilinged at 36 hours per month (1.5 hours per day...). Beyond that is illegal, which is likely in large part why 996 companies don't like the spotlight in the current 'who knows' game of who Beijing/Xi will selectively select to be made an example of.

Triple hourly pro-rata pay is only for working over official statutory holidays, otherwise overtime pay is 1.5 pro-rata hourly rate for working days and double hourly rate for 'rest days' (this would include Saturday or Sunday for a Monday-Friday employment contract).

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#99

Post by keytarsolo »

AFascistWorld wrote: post #71
sitharus wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just tested myself and the official client refuses to send. Third-party clients are unaffected, good thing I still use one really.

Not to defend twitter, but could this be an anti-spam measure?

An anti spam feature should not links typed by real humans on purpose. Lots of popular links are shared on twitter and don't get blocked via anti spam. This seems like something deliberate, even if the global part of the impact is a deployment error.

Re: 996, GitHub, and China's digital workers rights awakening

#100

Post by baybal2 »

ardy42 wrote: post #63
ezoe wrote: post #15

> Ironically, given that China is a communist country, workers’ rights movements and unions are extremely uncommon mind-boggling.

>> Ironically, given that China is a communist country, workers’ rights movements and unions are extremely uncommon > mind-boggling. The CCP feels threatened by any kind of idependent political organization that's not the CCP or directly under its thumb. This includes students that actually take Marxism seriously : https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/28/world/asia/china-maoists-... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/11/worl…

Yeah, kind of interesting phenomenon. It is now the left of the party that is being marginalised, and they actually are the ones who are more active on Internets: banyuetan, CYL journals, utopia, caogen...

The party is now busy purging CYL. The few CPC candidates that came through that route to CPC were driven out of politics, down to village mayor levels in the middle of nowheres. 刘剑 kicked from a post in a far away Hami, 余远辉 in Nanning

19th CPC really has close to no people younger than fifty, and is the oldest CPC by average age after 12th or 13th CPC.

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