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Chromium-based Edge preview builds

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Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#91

Post by codycraven »

millstone wrote: post #90
lousken wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because safari will sooner or later become another Edge. Apple doesn't invest enough into safari and now it's a browser which is most behind in terms of technologies.

Apple's Safari investment is focused on features like tracking prevention and anti-fingerprinting. Stuff for users at the expense of developers.

I've seen what happens to web browsers that trail behind the industry in features.

It doesn't matter how nice the privacy features are, when a user encounters web site after web site that doesn't work right in their browser, they eventually each out to a more technical friend that recommends trying browser X. When browser X fixes their problems, they never return.

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#92

Post by est31 »

atombender wrote: post #83
kerng wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stupid question probably... since I haven't had an iPhone for a couple years. Is Safari there still a thing? On my Mac I'm not using Safari at all. Havent opened it a single time since i got my latest MacBook - well I must have to download firefox but I dont remember. I remember at one point Apple wouldnt allow any other browsers rendering engines on iOS - is that still the case?

iOS apps can use whatever rendering engine they want. The restriction is on JIT -- Apple doesn't allow apps to compile native code on the fly, which modern JavaScript engines like V8 do. The exception is Apple's own JavaScriptCore, which works with WebKit. In theory you could have Firefox Quantum as a tenderer with JavaScriptCore as the JS engine, but that might be more work than it's worth.

> iOS apps can use whatever rendering engine they want. The restriction is on JIT

Wrong.

> 4.7 HTML5 Games, Bots, etc.

> your app must use WebKit and JavaScript Core to run third party software and should not attempt to extend or expose native platform APIs to third party software

https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#93

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

spinningslate wrote: post #47
fgonzag wrote: post #28

I wish they've would have gone with Firefox's Quantum, in order to try and at least balance out web market shares. MSFT no longer has any leverage in the web, so trying to keep it fair and accessible (no browser monopolies) should be a priority for them (especially since they have quite a few web platforms like office 365)

Agreed. Browser diversity might be a pain for developers, but concentrating 2 of the 4 dominant end-user computing platforms on the same browser engine doesn't sound like a positive step for users [0]. Particularly when the engine in question is developed and maintained by one of two primary surveillance tech firms on the planet. Perhaps I'm too jaded, but there's an unmistakable smell of the fishy about this. Domina…

Yep, WebKit and Blink are very different not least because of their different JS engines. Lots of developers have trouble targeting safari, whereas chrome is a breeze.

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#94

Post by metildaa »

spinningslate wrote: post #47
fgonzag wrote: post #28

I wish they've would have gone with Firefox's Quantum, in order to try and at least balance out web market shares. MSFT no longer has any leverage in the web, so trying to keep it fair and accessible (no browser monopolies) should be a priority for them (especially since they have quite a few web platforms like office 365)

Agreed. Browser diversity might be a pain for developers, but concentrating 2 of the 4 dominant end-user computing platforms on the same browser engine doesn't sound like a positive step for users [0]. Particularly when the engine in question is developed and maintained by one of two primary surveillance tech firms on the planet. Perhaps I'm too jaded, but there's an unmistakable smell of the fishy about this. Domina…

Apple will likely stick to Safari based on their Webkit fork. Look at their stewardship of coreutils and the graphics stack on MacOS, its plain to see that they just don't care if MacOS is 5+ years behind the curve on features and performance if its not hurting battety life for most users.

Gaming on MacOS has become a much more limited experience than on Linux (blame Valve for this) or Windows. Apple wields a big stick with each of these choices, kneecaping HTML5 PWAs, pushing forward their own graphics stack (hence the crap OpenGL support and lack of Mantle support)

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#95

Post by metildaa »

gsnedders wrote: post #57
scrollaway wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a technical perspective it makes zero sence to go with Gecko, given that it's 1. much harder to embed (there's a reason everyone's going with webkit/blink) and 2. with servo around the corner, a gecko EOL is expected at some point.

It being harder to embed is definitely true, but there's increasingly will within Mozilla to change that, and if someone (e.g. MS) was willing to step up and help provide engineering resources to make it possible it's definitely doable. GeckoView is slowly changing this on mobile, and resultantly something for desktop is easier than it was five years ago. Servo isn't replacing Gecko, though. There's nowhere near the…

Servo is a research project to build a fast browser, ignoring older web standards. Project Quantum is Mozilla cleaning up those components from Servo (adding support for older standards) and migrating them into Firefox.

For refactoring a massive codebase, Project Quantum seems totally reasonable rather reasonable versus a total rewrite.

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#96

Post by emp_ »

fxbl0i wrote: post #74
geofft wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google account integration seems pretty non-strategic for Microsoft - do we have any idea if this is intentional? (I would have assumed they'd implement all the cloud stuff backed by Live accounts.)

This new Edge seems to reuse the cookie jar, history, etc. of the real Edge, so emp_ is probably already logged in to his Google account on the real Edge. (Corrections welcome, but it's what I've noticed after trying it.)

I'm not logged in anything google on vanilla Edge at all, this is not coming from the Edge history.

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#97

Post by atombender »

est31 wrote: post #92
atombender wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS apps can use whatever rendering engine they want. The restriction is on JIT -- Apple doesn't allow apps to compile native code on the fly, which modern JavaScript engines like V8 do. The exception is Apple's own JavaScriptCore, which works with WebKit. In theory you could have Firefox Quantum as a tenderer with JavaScriptCore as the JS engine, but that might be more work than it's worth.

> iOS apps can use whatever rendering engine they want. The restriction is on JIT Wrong. > 4.7 HTML5 Games, Bots, etc. > your app must use WebKit and JavaScript Core to run third party software and should not attempt to extend or expose native platform APIs to third party software https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

You're not contradicting me. The section you're quoting is not about this, by the way. You want section 2.5.2:

"Apps should be self-contained in their bundles, and may not read or write data outside the designated container area, nor may they download, install, or execute code which introduces or changes features or functionality of the app, including other apps."

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#98

Post by dblohm7 »

scrollaway wrote: post #55
gsnedders wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a health-of-the-web point of view, it absolutely makes sense to go with Gecko. But from a business point-of-view, there's two opposing sides: going with Gecko devalues your browser on mobile (where WebKit & Blink effectively form a duopoly, and there's still enough content that relies on non-standard (pre-fork) behaviour that it causes problems for Gecko), though going with Gecko would increase their leverage ag…

From a technical perspective it makes zero sence to go with Gecko, given that it's 1. much harder to embed (there's a reason everyone's going with webkit/blink) and 2. with servo around the corner, a gecko EOL is expected at some point.

There is no plan to EOL Gecko.

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#99

Post by j16sdiz »

atombender wrote: post #83
kerng wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stupid question probably... since I haven't had an iPhone for a couple years. Is Safari there still a thing? On my Mac I'm not using Safari at all. Havent opened it a single time since i got my latest MacBook - well I must have to download firefox but I dont remember. I remember at one point Apple wouldnt allow any other browsers rendering engines on iOS - is that still the case?

iOS apps can use whatever rendering engine they want. The restriction is on JIT -- Apple doesn't allow apps to compile native code on the fly, which modern JavaScript engines like V8 do. The exception is Apple's own JavaScriptCore, which works with WebKit. In theory you could have Firefox Quantum as a tenderer with JavaScriptCore as the JS engine, but that might be more work than it's worth.

There is 2.5.6 > Apps that browse the web must use the appropriate WebKit framework and WebKit Javascript.

https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

Re: Chromium-based Edge preview builds

#100

Post by ninedays »

metildaa wrote: post #94
spinningslate wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Browser diversity might be a pain for developers, but concentrating 2 of the 4 dominant end-user computing platforms on the same browser engine doesn't sound like a positive step for users [0]. Particularly when the engine in question is developed and maintained by one of two primary surveillance tech firms on the planet. Perhaps I'm too jaded, but there's an unmistakable smell of the fishy about this. Domina…

Apple will likely stick to Safari based on their Webkit fork. Look at their stewardship of coreutils and the graphics stack on MacOS, its plain to see that they just don't care if MacOS is 5+ years behind the curve on features and performance if its not hurting battety life for most users. Gaming on MacOS has become a much more limited experience than on Linux (blame Valve for this) or Windows. Apple wields a big sti…

I do not agree Valve should be to blame if Apple decided that gaming wasn't important for them. I am the first one to say when they do amazing things but the reality is that gaming never was/is a priority for Apple. Take a look at the history of OpenGL on macOS and it will become obvious that the only reason Linux today has a better support for games than Apple is Apple's fault only.

I truly wish it was different.

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