Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5? • Hacker News Board

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#91

Post by TAForObvReasons » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:22 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #88

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is a loser except for the investors. If you really take it to the logical conclusion, the business model is Dumping [1]: capture the market, drive out everyone else, then jack up prices when you are the only show in town. And the winners in the endgame are the investors. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy)

I'm not doubting your point, but at the same time I struggle to name an example that did the "then jack up prices when you are the only show in town" step.

No one, not even Amazon, reached the "only show in town" scale. Walmart's online presence for most popular items is competitive and many times offer lower prices.

Uber, Airbnb, and other companies in this space are valued based on the assumption that they will in fact be able to reach that scale. And if they do, no doubt many of these unicorns will well exceed the trillion dollar market cap

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#92

Post by howeyc » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:26 PM UTC

ivanbakel wrote: post #82

p_roz wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about the demand for tax preparers each year. Higher demand Jan-Apr. Lower demand the rest of the year. Should companies be forced to hire tax preparers full time year round or should they be free to contract for only when they are needed?

That example isn't comparable to the kind of contracts that were originally being discussed. A contract with fixed hours on the scale of months doesn't have the same degree of stress as one with hours varying from day to day, week to week. Fixed term contracts are allowable, because taking that thinking to the extreme would mean never being able to terminate a worker, even in cases where their employment becomes obso…

There are so many, as a simple example, think basically any contractor that does work on houses.

Painter, they can only work on days it's nice out. Kinda hard to paint when it's raining, and you can't get the day back.

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#93

Post by golergka » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 4:47 PM UTC

username223 wrote: post #89

golergka wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about costs, but why does this matter at all? It's a market, so you should talk about supply and demand instead. People who decide to work for Uber have plenty of other options: stay without a job, land other low-paying job, etc... Uber is not their only possible employer, nor it is in a cartel with other low-wage job companies. It cannot dictate it terms to employees. If they accept the Uber's offer,…

> people working at these low-wage jobs don't have opportunities to do anything that would be more valued by society. And that same society made Travis Kalanick the 115th richest person in the world. There are two sides to this equation, and shrugging your shoulders and saying "supply and demand" is taking a side.

Yes, and after my life improved so significantly after old-style taxis have been replaced by taxi apps, I'm more than content with Kalanick's compensation.

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#94

Post by Balgair » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

tomohawk wrote: post #71

Money Quote: > I once read a tongue-in-cheek description of San Francisco as “an assisted-living community for tech workers in their thirties”. This snide jab pokes fun at the wave of Silicon Valley startups creating services and products for a stereotypical technology worker in the city. Nowhere to park your car? Uber and Lyft can get you around. Too busy working to cook and do grocery shopping? Postmates can delive…

This one goes back about four years:

"OH: SF tech culture is focused on solving one problem: What is my mother no longer doing for me?"

https://twitter.com/azizshamim/status/595285234880491521

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#95

Post by lordnacho » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 6:21 PM UTC

Fjolsvith wrote: post #80

lordnacho wrote: post #79

I wonder what the answer is to these two questions: - Once we've driven out the competition, what prevents some other VC-backed firm from playing the same trick? If customers go for the cheapest thing -and let's face it, taxi and food delivery are not differentiable- won't there always be another disruptor? - If there's a monopoly that lets us make huge profits, wouldn't the government come and do something about tha…

> -and let's face it, taxi and food delivery are not differentiable- won't there always be another disruptor? Drones and perhaps, down the road, teleporters.

Right and then the trick will be to make the cheapest drone delivery? How is it ever not a race to the bottom?

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#96

Post by danaris » Fri, Apr 05, 2019, 10:57 PM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #90

danaris wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is not a structural problem with the taxi industry: it is a problem with the current implementation in certain areas. Other places have recognized the need to make taxi service more modern and less horrible and made changes—having their own ride-hailing apps for the local taxi service, for instance. Not everywhere is New York City.

Indeed, not everywhere is New York City. Some places are worse, like San Francisco. Possibly there are places that are worse again. Certainly I would never get a taxi in Southeast Asia if I could possibly get an Uber.

The point is that there's no specific reason that the taxi industry "deserves" to be terminated with extreme prejudice by disruptive startups.

Even given its current state in the places you name, I don't believe that justifies handing over billions of dollars to sleazes like the ones at Uber, especially given that the people who do the actual work to make them that money are often working at what works out to less than minimum wage.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#97

Post by iamkroot » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 6:55 AM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #44

countryqt30 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, nobody forces you to do this so what's the point?

I think you're demonstrating a point of view that's tragically common here on HN - you're assuming that people are never desperate, and that they always have an alternative to choose instead. Many people are in the position where they only have one option and have to pick that to earn a living. That's not strictly being forced to work a job that sucks, but the reality is they don't have a choice if the alternative is…

What were these people doing before they started driving for Uber? Presumably they decided that being a driver was a better use of their time and that's why they made the switch.

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#98

Post by iamkroot » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 6:57 AM UTC

fabricexpert wrote: post #41

countryqt30 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, nobody forces you to do this so what's the point?

Do you really think people doing gig economy jobs have alternatives? It's not a "lifestyle choice", it's literally looking around and saying what can I do that will pay my bills, today. And if these are the only options available this is what you "choose".

What were the drivers doing before Uber existed? Were all of them unemployed and unable to find any other means of employment?

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#99

Post by dredmorbius » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 9:32 AM UTC

neffy wrote: post #26

deweller wrote: post #16

I genuinely don't understand the argument that tech companies are hurting society by providing lower paying gig-economy jobs. By providing more jobs, these companies are increasing options for workers looking for jobs. No one is forcing Uber drivers to drive passengers. If there is a shortage of labor, then the prices paid to workers will increase due to market forces. If there is not a shortage of labor, then people…

Think of society as a very slow (this is key) networked system, subject to the same kind of feedback loops and manipulations we can perform in computer networks, just progressing in human time over years. Now within this system there are two strategies to run a company, #1) employ people, make a product, sell it for a profit, rinse, recycle, keep going for decades if you´re good. Or #2, for a short (but longish in hu…

Though VC is technicaly equity rather than debt.

Rather than borrowing, it induces a follow-on investment, capital, revenue and market (in cases), recruiting strength and other mindshare effects.

The smart money knows the exit strategy (and more importantly: timing ), the dumb money thinks it does, the hopeless money has no idea what exit strategy is.

The effect is similar to the debt model you describe, though structured differently.

Re: Who Pays the Price for Selling $10 Bills for $5?

#100

Post by username223 » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #93

username223 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people working at these low-wage jobs don't have opportunities to do anything that would be more valued by society. And that same society made Travis Kalanick the 115th richest person in the world. There are two sides to this equation, and shrugging your shoulders and saying "supply and demand" is taking a side.

Yes, and after my life improved so significantly after old-style taxis have been replaced by taxi apps, I'm more than content with Kalanick's compensation.

Sweet. Those people who drive for less than minimum wage are mostly water, but they also contain proteins and other trace elements. A centrifuge can separate that out.