While we're bashing Boeing, let us not forget how they tried to swindle taxpayers into buying their tankers... a scandal which led to their CFO going to prison.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/2003/10/06/t...
Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s
91–100 of 368 posts
Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Having theories and arguments that are convenient and self serving is not a crime. It's called public relations. For crime to happen there has to be criminal activity.
> It had tampered with the PCU from the Colorado Springs crash This looks like "activity" to me.
Good point. This claim seems to be very original.
Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
People don't buy planes though, other corporations that are doing the same thing buy them. Southwest has probably pushed as much on making these things not as clear or as helpful as they could be to avoid having to retrain for a new type. And when this is said and done, they are going to buy more airplanes and people are going to continue to buy flights from them because they are cheap.
Why single out southwest specifically in this hypothetical scenario? If any airline seems 'people focused' I'd think it would be them..
Southwest is probably called out specifically here because they're somewhat unique in the airline world in that their entire fleet is 737s.
This allows them to save on maintenance costs since there's so much commonality among their fleet, but puts them in more peril when something affects the entire class of craft.
Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s
#94Can't you just stop buying airplanes from them? Edit: Do the downvoters also want to throw the executives in jail for life?
Ah yes, the magical invisible hand of the market will solve this. Now when going on holidays, I need to be factor in the safety standards of the planes that will be servicing my route. Or you know, get a government regulator to regulate airplane manufactures like normal countries.
> Or you know, get a government regulator to regulate airplane manufactures like normal countries.
You're assuming that the FAA does not regulate Boeing properly. Do you have any basis for this? The safety record of modern air travel is a huge success story for how public regulations and private innovation can work for the benefit of all.
Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s
#95Did Boeing executives go to jail for this disgusting cover up? I hope that the diesel cover-up of Volkswagen and the people that went to jail will motivate governments to pursue criminal charges against Boeing and/or Airbus if similar things happen. Fighting blame by lying and deflection at the risk of death should be a criminal offense. It's mass murder.
>Did Boeing executives go to jail for this disgusting cover up?
Did you read this one imgur blog and assume that what is stated is an accurate representation of reality?
Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
That would require more evidence than it sounds like there is. And that's assuming that you subscribe to the motivations put forward in this article. I generally follow Hanlon's razor - "Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence". I have a hard time believing that a cover-up in Boeing was orchestrated over several years by a group of people all who didn't care about loss of life.…
> I have a hard time believing that a cover-up in Boeing was orchestrated over several years by a group of people all who didn't care about loss of life. No orchestration is needed. Managers only need to look with disdain to anyone that brings the issue. If your company does not put a lot of resources to make it transparent it is going to be opaque by default. Transparency is hard to achieve when humans are so good r…
No orchestration is needed. Managers only need to look with disdain to anyone that brings the issue.
Networks and social media extend the reach of these kinds of disdain, and take these mechanisms beyond the walls of the office and organization. In the present day climate, where accusations causing outrage tend more easily to become viral, one need not be someone's manager or even have a close relationship to exercise such power of disdain. The incentive structures in social media can act as a very efficient transmission substrate for these mechanisms.
One doesn't have to look far, to see how social media amplified groupthink has short circuited professional judgement -- even in highly visible and public circumstances. In particular, forums, email lists, and social media groups of journalists can be seen to be having such effects.
So, to get a cover up you only need to do nothing.
With just a modicum of digging, this can be seen quite clearly in 2019, in the mainstream media, which is declining but still trusted by the public.
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”
This effect is very real and very powerful. This is why we as a society should be wary of the political exclusiveness of entire professions, entire industries, and of academia. If you're surrounded only by people of like minds, you're far less likely to have your idea checked by people highly motivated to find your faults. It's only diversity of opinions which guards against groupthink.
Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s
#97> Instead, Boeing tried to claim that flight 427 crashed because a pilot had a seizure and depressed the rudder. NTSB investigators dismissed this as ridiculous. > Boeing had no choice but to carry out the changes, but the company never stopped trying to deflect blame. While the investigation was ongoing, it adopted a philosophy of trying to avoid paying out damages to families of crews because this could be legally…
Having theories and arguments that are convenient and self serving is not a crime. It's called public relations. For crime to happen there has to be criminal activity.
Having theories and arguments that are convenient and self serving is not a crime. It's called public relations
It's not just PR. It's default behavior for Homo sapiens.
Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s
#98This is why we have the NTSB, prioror to it’s existence manufacturers were the primary investigators of their planes’ accidents with predictable results like above.
Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s
#99> Instead, Boeing tried to claim that flight 427 crashed because a pilot had a seizure and depressed the rudder. NTSB investigators dismissed this as ridiculous. > Boeing had no choice but to carry out the changes, but the company never stopped trying to deflect blame. While the investigation was ongoing, it adopted a philosophy of trying to avoid paying out damages to families of crews because this could be legally…
That would require more evidence than it sounds like there is. And that's assuming that you subscribe to the motivations put forward in this article. I generally follow Hanlon's razor - "Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence". I have a hard time believing that a cover-up in Boeing was orchestrated over several years by a group of people all who didn't care about loss of life.…
> didn't take the problem seriously, and that they were biased towards conclusions that weren't their fault.
I think that is malice personally.
Re: Rudder issue that plagued the Boeing 737 throughout the 1990s
#100Aside from this specific issue, all of aviation works like this. E.g. the reason the 747 was decommissioned from passenger flight in the US when it was is because they flew it right up to the day that the FAA mandated that they couldn't fly it anymore. The reason was that they didn't have then-mandatory fuel tank inerting. For something like a decade there were a bunch of planes in the air carrying people that were k…
Do you mean a specific variant 747? Because 747s are still definitely flying passengers in the U.S. They are still making new ones.