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Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

latimes.com

91–100 of 327 posts

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#91
I expect this to backfire. More people will buy cars if hiring out their commute becomes more expensive. Once they have bought a car, they'll use it even for perfectly walkable errands, just like everyone else.

"Metro also is considering a fee on bicycles, electric scooters, and other devices"

Ditto.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#92
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's misleading -- yes, in the aggregate, gas taxes cover only part of the expenses, but that's not because of personal cars . Damage on the roads -- and thus maintenance costs -- scales with the 4th power of weight per axle. So the damage is virtually all from large trucks, with sedans and SUVs as a rounding error. If you were to apportion out the maintenance cost due to personal cars, they are overpaying.

This is why the Netherlands also has weight-based vehicle taxes (on top of the gas tax and many other taxes).

As do the states. Commercial trucks pay a lot more road use tax than passenger cars. Whether it's proportional to the damage they cause I don't know.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#93
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really the view from a city budget. Cities don't have that many truck routes and their costs are dominated by maintaining streets where virtually all the traffic is light vehicles. For the state it is a bigger problem because almost all state route are truck routes.

Are you sure about that? I see garbage trucks, delivery trucks (package, furniture, appliance etc.), lawn service trucks, salt trucks, snow plowing trucks etc day-in, day-out.[1] And to do their job, they probably need traverse 95% of the paved roadways on a regular basis. Granted, you don't typically see 18-wheelers tooling around most neighborhoods[2] but there is quite a bit of truck traffic through even moderatel…

We're talking about California. There are no major cities in California in possession of snow plows and salt trucks. A garbage truck goes down the street once per week, yes. The overwhelming majority of traffic on most city streets is cars and light trucks. The main cause of damage to most city streets is the mere passage of time, and rain.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuel tax revenue and other direct user fees like annual registration in California amount to less than 25% of what the state and its cities pay to maintain the roads and streets. Roads are massively subsidized from general revenues. If you are proposing a $5/gallon fuel tax then I completely agree. That would be about equivalent to what other rich countries tax motor fuel and consistent with the state's greenhouse ga…

Those roads are what allow stuff to be delivered. How do you ship an air conditioning unit on a bike path? The point is that the roads serve commerce and a tax on roads is really a tax on everything. Roads aren’t exactly massively subsidized — the commerce they generate results in taxes. Tax revenue generated per mile driven is far greater than any supposed subsidy. We could make an argument that schools are massivel…

Gas in Switzerland is currently about $9 USD per gallon (CHF 2.27 per liter), chiefly in taxes.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuel tax revenue and other direct user fees like annual registration in California amount to less than 25% of what the state and its cities pay to maintain the roads and streets. Roads are massively subsidized from general revenues. If you are proposing a $5/gallon fuel tax then I completely agree. That would be about equivalent to what other rich countries tax motor fuel and consistent with the state's greenhouse ga…

Those roads are what allow stuff to be delivered. How do you ship an air conditioning unit on a bike path? The point is that the roads serve commerce and a tax on roads is really a tax on everything. Roads aren’t exactly massively subsidized — the commerce they generate results in taxes. Tax revenue generated per mile driven is far greater than any supposed subsidy. We could make an argument that schools are massivel…

Keep in mind there is also 20-25% VAT on those European prices. Which is on the total cost including the cost of the fuel and any duties.

It definitely adds up to around £1 a litre in the UK of tax (59p duty plus 30p VAT) depending on exact wholesale prices. This works out at around $5 per (US) gallon.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#96

I expect this to backfire. More people will buy cars if hiring out their commute becomes more expensive. Once they have bought a car, they'll use it even for perfectly walkable errands, just like everyone else. "Metro also is considering a fee on bicycles, electric scooters, and other devices" Ditto.

You tax something, you get less of it.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those roads are what allow stuff to be delivered. How do you ship an air conditioning unit on a bike path? The point is that the roads serve commerce and a tax on roads is really a tax on everything. Roads aren’t exactly massively subsidized — the commerce they generate results in taxes. Tax revenue generated per mile driven is far greater than any supposed subsidy. We could make an argument that schools are massivel…

Gas in Switzerland is currently about $9 USD per gallon (CHF 2.27 per liter), chiefly in taxes.

Correct, if the price in the US is $3 a gallon and the price in Europe is $8-9 a gallon then there must be around 5-6 of additional taxes in Europe.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#98
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If efficient cars are a problem, tax efficient cars, not Uber. But given CA's environmental goals, this would be counterproductive.

As others have mentioned, taxing efficient cars doesn't seem to make much sense. Maybe tax actual miles traveled instead? That would solve the problem of increasing efficiency and also decrease the value of loitering and cruising in-between pick-ups.

I'm real curious as to how taxing miles travelled would work, especially if you travel between states. Would you have to keep track of how many miles you drove in State A and State B, and how would you pay State B if you lived in State A? Since we'd need to replace the federal fuel tax as well, would the federal government require states to hold yearly odometer inspections, or would you have to fill out a form on your yearly taxes stating how far you drove? I supposed that these questions could be solved by utilizing GPS, but I'm not sure I like the idea of the government tracking the movements of my vehicle.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#99

I expect this to backfire. More people will buy cars if hiring out their commute becomes more expensive. Once they have bought a car, they'll use it even for perfectly walkable errands, just like everyone else. "Metro also is considering a fee on bicycles, electric scooters, and other devices" Ditto.

Your comment actually made me read the article. That is a direct quotation, and pushes the whole thing over the edge in my opinion from "very poorly thought-out plan" to "just barely pretending"

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#100
post #72
post #65

Amen. Uber and Lyft are adding congestion to our roads and undermining public transportation, all while profiting off public infrastructure and a class of driver “partners” who incur all of the costs for a razor thin upside. Id like to see the start of a state owned rideshare network with specially zoned drop off, pick up, and lane privileges that Uber and Lyft don’t get access to.

You just described Bus Rapid Transit

Which LA is thankfully building
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