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Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

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Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#91

Post by yunyu »

radmuzom wrote: post #22

Resonates strongly with me. Many of my school friends went to the best colleges in my country - all the time attributing their success solely to "hard work". However, they always seemed to ignore the fact that their parents paid a lot of money for them to attend the best tuition outside of school. I did not have that option and did not get admitted to any of the famous colleges (I am discounting the constant mental t…

I received much better financial aid offers from top schools than the local state university. While the ability to pay tuition definitely is a factor, keep in mind that many students do not pay even close to sticker price.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#92

Post by stcredzero »

Isamu wrote: post #2

>She told me, “I was curious, but I don't know how a single person in America who doesn't have family money could buy anything, I really don’t, if they're not working in finance or they're not a doctor. ” Easy, there are vast areas of America where housing is more affordable. I certainly got zero cash from family when I bought a home. My family put money into giving me food and shelter growing up though. This is kind…

>She told me, “I was curious, but I don't know how a single person in America who doesn't have family money could buy anything, I really don’t, if they're not working in finance or they're not a doctor. ”

This is kind of like that cartoon of a New Yorker's view of the US, where Manhattan looms large, then there's New Jersey, and at the fringes there is the rest of the nation.

I met this veteran taxi driver in South Carolina who had bought a big Federal era house north of the state capital, for only $20,000 back in the late 90's. Everything about the house needed fixing, and there was no heating/ventilation equipment functioning at all. He was living there, however, and he was putting all of his extra money into buying construction materials, so he could eventually sell it for 20 times as much. I also knew a waitress/barista in Ohio who had bought a duplex, was living in one half, and renting out the other. She had done all of that on $5/hour plus tips and sweat equity. Both of the above examples happened in the 90's.

This Kirsten Dirksen video is basically a documentary about how homeowner's interests and their affect on local laws have basically ossified our society. (This is set in Sonoma, which is not overcrowded in the least.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8x4CWBMsPg

Basically, homeowners have thrown up roadblocks to keep "the wrong element" out of their neighborhoods, which also locks out the young people of their own group. The big irony is that this happened much more in liberal California than it did in conservative Ohio and South Carolina.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#93

Post by arendtio »

> Financial help from parents comes in many forms, and it’s the basis of so many success stories. So why do millennials act like it doesn't exist?

Because never before your chances of becoming wealthy without help from your parents were so good? At least that is my impression without knowing any facts.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#94

Post by darawk »

fzeroracer wrote: post #86
darawk wrote: post #26

This is such nonsense. First of all, there are absolutely people who come from dirt poverty and become wildly successful. Second of all, plenty of people receive lots of help from their parents and amount to precisely nothing. IMO it's fair to refer to your success as "self made" if you exceed the median success level of your class peer group by a substantial margin. If you immigrate from Africa with nothing, and you…

Do you have an argument against the authors points that does not consist of adhominem and projection? The self-made illusion is precisely that because we ignore the many things that gave us a headstart in life and allowed us to do the things that would've caused other people to fail. The only reason why I'm here now is because I took on a risk of going bankrupt moving across the country for a job opportunity in an in…

> Do you have an argument against the authors points that does not consist of adhominem and projection?

Did you read the first part of my comment? Literally the first two paragraphs are exactly what you're asking for.

> The self-made illusion is precisely that because we ignore the many things that gave us a headstart in life and allowed us to do the things that would've caused other people to fail. The only reason why I'm here now is because I took on a risk of going bankrupt moving across the country for a job opportunity in an industry that suddenly became very volatile. Had I been laid off or had the winds shifted and resulted in my first job being downsized, I would've been financially destroyed and dropped right back into poverty. We ignore the sheer amount of luck and circumstance in our career and lives in favor of telling a story where we're the hero.

The fact that luck is involved does not make being 'self-made' an illusion. You're probably an intelligent person, if this opportunity would have blown up for you, you'd have done something else.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#95

Post by fireflash38 »

darawk wrote: post #26

This is such nonsense. First of all, there are absolutely people who come from dirt poverty and become wildly successful. Second of all, plenty of people receive lots of help from their parents and amount to precisely nothing. IMO it's fair to refer to your success as "self made" if you exceed the median success level of your class peer group by a substantial margin. If you immigrate from Africa with nothing, and you…

I feel like your response here is only against the title, not the content of the article, since your complaints are explicitly addressed in the article.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#96

Post by [deleted] »

ForHackernews wrote: post #20
Consultant32452 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I live in a 2nd tier city. My friends who are home owners have very middle class blue collar jobs. Examples include auto mechanic, security system installer, and local delivery truck driver. None of them got "help."

How old are they? I know plenty of people who bought a house 30 or 40 years ago on blue collar salaries. I don't know any <30 year olds who bought property without parental help.

[deleted]

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#97

Post by ForHackernews »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #77
adventured wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A $180,000 30yr mortgage will cost you ~$880 per month. These days the median of all home sales in the US is about $225,000. The hard part of that $225k purchase for most people under 30 is the down payment of $45k. The median full-time income is about $50,000 in the US. Emphasis that that is the median, not average. Two household incomes is ~$85,000 or higher at median type wages (assuming a pairing of one full-time…

With the average cost of wedding in the US being above $35k ( https://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-the-average-american-... ), $45k of downpayment seems to be well within the means of an average family.

Marriage rates are also declining except among the middle to upper-middle classes.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#98

Post by astrodust »

darawk wrote: post #94
fzeroracer wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an argument against the authors points that does not consist of adhominem and projection? The self-made illusion is precisely that because we ignore the many things that gave us a headstart in life and allowed us to do the things that would've caused other people to fail. The only reason why I'm here now is because I took on a risk of going bankrupt moving across the country for a job opportunity in an in…

> Do you have an argument against the authors points that does not consist of adhominem and projection? Did you read the first part of my comment? Literally the first two paragraphs are exactly what you're asking for. > The self-made illusion is precisely that because we ignore the many things that gave us a headstart in life and allowed us to do the things that would've caused other people to fail. The only reason w…

Yeah, like fall back into poverty.

People that are wildly successful often hit some very narrow window. You can be persistent and try and try again which increases your odds, but it's still a crap-shoot.

Re: Why the “Self-Made” Success Story Is a Myth

#100

Post by adventured »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #77
adventured wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A $180,000 30yr mortgage will cost you ~$880 per month. These days the median of all home sales in the US is about $225,000. The hard part of that $225k purchase for most people under 30 is the down payment of $45k. The median full-time income is about $50,000 in the US. Emphasis that that is the median, not average. Two household incomes is ~$85,000 or higher at median type wages (assuming a pairing of one full-time…

With the average cost of wedding in the US being above $35k ( https://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-the-average-american-... ), $45k of downpayment seems to be well within the means of an average family.

It's very doable, especially if you have a partner to split it with. Where the $45k gets someone under 30, is just that it can take several years to put together that sum. Most people don't start to hit their earning stride until the very late 20s or early 30s.

So you're in the median bracket and you get your first serious, solid paying job by ~24/25. It's reasonable that if you're diligent about savings every month, you could have $45k+ by yourself at 32-36 years of age, and I'm assuming some financial setbacks along the way. With a partner, it really shouldn't be a problem by those ages. To do it before 30, you'd need a good economic pairing of two people that already are near or above $85k by 30. All assuming you're not living in an expensive market of course. With the necessary caveat: having children before 28 or 30 considerably changes the equation (unless you have a larger income in the household to offset that additional cost), as can serious health problems and associated bills (depending on your job/career situation).

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