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Four-day week trial: study finds lower stress but no cut in output

theguardian.com

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Re: Four-day week trial: study finds lower stress but no cut in output

#91

Post by thecatspaw »

analognoise wrote: post #57
StavrosK wrote: post #46

I've been working four-day workweeks for the past 4 years or so, and love it. I can't say I have the same output (nor would I want to, since I took a 20% pay cut for it). I wouldn't trade it for anything, and I don't think I'll be able to work 5-day weeks again. I tried it a few times and I found myself very unhappy, 5 days were too long and the weekend too short. The 4/3 split is ideal, four days isn't enough to get…

That schedule is called a 4-10 - 4, 10 hour work days, and every Friday off. 9/80 is that you work 9 hours a day, and every other Friday is off. They're both popular in defense and aerospace.

So decreasing productivity even further, even though you could achieve the same amount of finished work with 4 8h days. Why?

Re: Four-day week trial: study finds lower stress but no cut in output

#92

Post by Areading314 »

This is a deeply flawed experiment. Of course the employees want a 4-day workweek, which is why they will work extra hard during the trial. I doubt this would be reproduced if employees were told the 4-day weeks were permanent no matter the outcome.

Re: Four-day week trial: study finds lower stress but no cut in output

#93

Post by paulryanrogers »

data4science wrote: post #79
combatentropy wrote: post #25

This is not the first article about how people get the same amount of work done, even more, in four days instead of five. But another thing they have in common is that they never ask the question, what about three? Or what about two? One? Surely at zero, productivity will not match the old standard of 40 hours a week. But it seems like the next logical question to me. If employees are just as productive at 32 hours a…

Actually, Tim Ferris wrote a book called "The 4-Hour Workweek" with the goal of more people achieving the title. It is more oriented at breaking free of normal work habits than a scientific study of optimal productivity though.

The pills and books he sells to achieve his 4-hour work week make me suspicious of the methodology. Only so many can sell shovels to the gold miners before the market is saturated.

Re: Four-day week trial: study finds lower stress but no cut in output

#94

Post by ribfeast »

We should switch, not because it raises or maintains productivity, but because it's the right thing to do. Framing the debate in terms of productivity plays into the hands of those who would maintain the status quo. If laborers were properly organized, we could dictate the 4-day or 3-day workweek,

Re: Four-day week trial: study finds lower stress but no cut in output

#95

Post by tonyedgecombe »

decebalus1 wrote: post #73

That's never going to happen. Regardless of what 'studies show'. If Jesus comes down from heaven and tells everyone we need to work less, it will still never happen. Was reading 'Bullshit jobs' by David Graeber and frankly I am starting to believe the conspiracy theory that there is an inherent interest of society to keep people busy as much as possible. Because if you give people more free time, don't keep them on t…

I was watching a video by Jeffrey Sachs a little while ago about sustainable development. He had some interesting charts that show if you add up all the figures in total we are working less than we ever have and there has been a consistent downward trend over recent years.

Re: Four-day week trial: study finds lower stress but no cut in output

#96

Post by jack_pp »

Brigadirk wrote: post #8
snarf21 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus your brain will crunch things in the background. How many time as a developer have you "solved" a problem you've been stuck on for hours or days while showering or traveling to work. Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees.

I share your experience. But, I've recently read a book, The Mind is Flat by Nick Chater, a psychologist, wherein he argues that your brain does not crunch anything in the background, and only does what it focuses on. However, the situation you outlined still occurs because you can get stuck in a certain paradigm (e.g. "this name that I can't remember definitely starts with 's'"), which you effectively reset, in addi…

There are times when you're not focusing on anything specific, hence why you get ideas / breakthroughs in the shower, or when looking out of the window of a train / car or just mindlessly walking, because you're not focusing on anything and your System1 can solve stuff.

Though I feel that System1 can't work while System2 is focusing on other stuff like playing games or browsing social media so I don't think they're necessarily running in parallel.

Re: Four-day week trial: study finds lower stress but no cut in output

#97

Post by js2 »

znq wrote: post #4

At Mobile Jazz (7 years old now) and Bugfender (4-5 years old now) we always had the rule, that people could choose to work as much as they want and when they went. As long as the output and quality was there. Obviously to achieve high quality output you need to be there at certain times (overlap with other team members) and you need to do a certain amount of hours. The problems we had because of this are almost no-e…

> Remember, work has to be fun. We value employees who live rich and rounded lives. We run a flexible workplace, and we have ever since we were a blacksmith shop that shut down whenever the waves were six feet, hot and glassy. Our policy has always allowed employees to work flexible hours, as long as the work gets done with no negative impacts on others. A serious surfer doesn't plan to go surfing next Tuesday at two o'clock. You go surfing when there are waves and the tide and wind are right.

From Let My People Go Surfing by Yvon Chouinard.

Re: Four-day week trial: study finds lower stress but no cut in output

#98

Post by tonyedgecombe »

saalweachter wrote: post #76
naasking wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40h was first most widely implemented by Henry Ford, because of equal productivity with fewer mistakes than the 10-16 hour days that were then the norm. So there is some empirical evidence that it's better than more hours, and some empirical evidence that it's better than fewer hours in some cases, and plenty showing no change with fewer hours. The fairest characterisation is that there was considerable back and fort…

The 8-hour-workday and 5-day-workweek movements were largely independent in time, and while there was some overlap in terms of both implementation and in terms of the populations demanding them, they really came from different places. People first started getting into the 8-hour workday at the beginning of the 19th century, and it was largely driven by workers, tradesmen, and utopian communists who wanted life to con…

The UK had a 3 day week for a short period when coal supply was restricted (because of a miners strike). The economy was in a bit of a mess then so I'm not sure you would find any useful information from it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-Day_Week

Re: Four-day week trial: study finds lower stress but no cut in output

#99

Post by excalibur »

ergothus wrote: post #50

I worked at a state govt job that allowed for 4 day weeks. Being govt, and with my manager in particular, time was closely managed. It worked, but it was HARD! The difference between an 8 hour day and a 10 hour day is having to find a second wind, on demand, 4 days in a row. Every time I would say I was going to drop, and then the three day weekend hit and I had time to get personal stuff done, time to relax without…

When I was a young buck, my dream schedule was two 20s (that's a 20-hour shift, followed by a day off, followed by another 20-hour shift, followed by a 4-day weekend). That's not as appealing as it used to be, I seem to require more sleep these days. And my schedule has gotten pretty flexible, which I enjoy. But if I had to go back to something rigid, I'd still take four 10s over five 8s.

Re: Four-day week trial: study finds lower stress but no cut in output

#100

Post by tonyedgecombe »

CedarHill wrote: post #51

Treehouse used to do 4/10s and from what I remember listening to Ryan Carson's podcast with Jason Calacanis, it didn't work out for them. So I don't think this should apply to every workplace. For more mature companies, it makes sense. For startups, I don't think so.

I'm not surprised that didn't work, your productivity is going to fall through the day as you become tired. After 10 hours it might well be negative.
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