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Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

bloomberg.com

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Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#91

Post by kenhwang »

diddid wrote: post #79

I think one thing to remember that people who buy a Toyota drive it like it's... a Toyota. Cars that are driven hard will break down faster than cars that aren't, and I'm guessing the average BMW is pushed harder than the average Toyota. My wife can put a hole in a pair of nice running shoes faster than I can even wear tread off of a junky pair. Use matters, not all miles are equal.

Doesn't explain the Porsche tie with Toyota unless you're suggesting Porsche drivers are more like Toyota drivers than BMW.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#92

Post by gnicholas »

Neil44 wrote: post #69

I don’t think the survey takes into account the differing expectations of the buyers of the different brands. Someone buying a Mercedes has different expectations than someone buying a Corola and this would strongly influence issue numbers.

Definitely true. I knew a guy who bought a BMW 5-series and was annoyed at a whistling sound that it made. When you pay $50k+ for a vehicle, you expect that it will perform at exacting standards.

Also, the fact that it's under warranty and the BMW dealership will give you a loaner makes you more likely to take it in for extended troubleshooting/repair.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#93

Post by lb1lf »

gonzo wrote: post #81
alvern wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 2006 Prius is at 388k. I've promised myself I wouldn't get another car until this one quits. But, it just won't die. I've also priced out getting an EV for my 42 mile commute but the ROI is not there compared to a used-paid for high mileage Prius.

it's the antithesis of a Prius, but my 1992 Landcruiser with 362K miles is still on the road, and until recently, daily-driven. Daily driver now is a 1997 Landcruiser, with 172K miles.

AOL. (I have two - daily driver is a 20 year old KZJ95 with some 220k miles to its name - I have owned it for the past six years (80k miles) - it has cost me less in parts and labour than wife's 2012 VW Passat 3c which has covered less than 20k miles in the same time. The Passat wins on gas mileage, though. Cough.)

The other is a 1981 BJ42. For the first 35 years of its life, it was owned by a utility company which put more than 420k miles on it doing HV line inspections. Still just works. As long as I can keep the rust worm from taking hold, this thing will outlive me.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#94

Post by dgzl »

gonzo wrote: post #81
alvern wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 2006 Prius is at 388k. I've promised myself I wouldn't get another car until this one quits. But, it just won't die. I've also priced out getting an EV for my 42 mile commute but the ROI is not there compared to a used-paid for high mileage Prius.

it's the antithesis of a Prius, but my 1992 Landcruiser with 362K miles is still on the road, and until recently, daily-driven. Daily driver now is a 1997 Landcruiser, with 172K miles.

Now that's a beautiful rig.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#95

Post by repler »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #9

Automotive EE here. In the last 5-8 years there has been a DRAMATIC change in the way vehicles are tested and released. Everyone has become much more focused on electronic features - while at the same time almost everyone is completely outsourcing electronics design and firmware. Cars hit the lots with 10 new flashes waiting. When I started, it was a BIG DEAL if you had a lot held up somewhere in Detroit because of a…

> I would not purchase a 2019 anything right now. I'd allow for two-three years worth of flashes before considering a new car

Do you mean a model that is all new for 2019 or do you mean literally any car assembled in 2019?

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#97

Post by potta_coffee »

ams6110 wrote: post #90
potta_coffee wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Subaru beater with ~250k on it, it's going strong. Have had Toyotas with almost 300k miles on them before selling the car for ~1k bucks. I love Japanese cars. I have a Dodge Caravan, at 140k miles the thing is about ready for the junk pile.

Older Toyotas rust horribly, especially the trucks, but are mechanically very solid. I've had rust issues with Nissans also. Honda seems to have it figured out. I've been quite happy with Ford also. Chrysler products are the worst I've ever owned from a reliability standpoint, most of my issues with them have been electrical not mechanical though.

Subaru is rusted badly. Toyotas didn't have any. Caravan problems are terrible and mostly electrical...window motors have all failed, door locks are failed, weird problems with the car not starting even though battery has charge (starter is fine but the computer refuses to allow the starter to try to work if voltage reading isn't correct). Weather stripping that covers the seams on the roof is all coming off. Anything that is not the engine is falling apart.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#98

Post by lb1lf »

babyslothzoo wrote: post #53
randcraw wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But their truck frames are also legendary for rusting out -- a very expensive repair.

Are they anymore so than other cars driven where they salt the roads? I have not heard that.

Anecdotal experience (Long-time Land Cruiser owner in Western Norway where the SOP at first snow is to salt the heck out of it) suggests that Toyotas do rust like mad; I work hard all year keeping my Land Cruisers (a 1981 BJ42 and a 1998 KZJ95) reasonably rust-free. I have to treat them to lanolin twice a winter season.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#99

Post by headmelted »

ams6110 wrote: post #90
potta_coffee wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Subaru beater with ~250k on it, it's going strong. Have had Toyotas with almost 300k miles on them before selling the car for ~1k bucks. I love Japanese cars. I have a Dodge Caravan, at 140k miles the thing is about ready for the junk pile.

Older Toyotas rust horribly, especially the trucks, but are mechanically very solid. I've had rust issues with Nissans also. Honda seems to have it figured out. I've been quite happy with Ford also. Chrysler products are the worst I've ever owned from a reliability standpoint, most of my issues with them have been electrical not mechanical though.

Have to say that the Corolla I referred to above is spotless wrt rust. Undercarriage too.

This is all the more impressive given that our roads are salted constantly in the winter months here.

The worst I've seen for it are mid-2000s Fords. It's like the frames aren't galvanized at all, but that may be a problem limited to UK models.

That said my (beloved) Nissan Leaf is starting to go orange underneath but thankfully it looks like surface rust rather than rot.

Re: Toyotas and Chevys Are Holding Up Better Than Most Luxury Brands

#100

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

4ad wrote: post #26
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #9

Automotive EE here. In the last 5-8 years there has been a DRAMATIC change in the way vehicles are tested and released. Everyone has become much more focused on electronic features - while at the same time almost everyone is completely outsourcing electronics design and firmware. Cars hit the lots with 10 new flashes waiting. When I started, it was a BIG DEAL if you had a lot held up somewhere in Detroit because of a…

I completely despise the new consumer facing electronics in cars. Not because I find anything inherently wrong with electronics, but because I find the software/electronics in every car, in literally every car made today, cheap or expensive, to be an epic disaster both from an industrial design, and security standpoint. Sadly, I think "normal" cars will go extinct the way non-smartphones and non-smart TVs went extinc…

You can sit around and wait for the next Steve Jobs to release the iPhone of cars but it won’t happen. Too much regulation, some for good reason.

If you buy an iPhone and it crashes, no big deal. Not the same for your car.

>Where's the 70 Series Toyota Land Cruiser of today?

Wouldn’t pass emissions, homologation / pedestrian impact, safety, etc. Everyone loves regulations until they don’t. Jeep Wrangler is the closest you can get, and the new Wrangler has two or three microcontrollers in the steering wheel alone even on the base model.

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