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Whitespace killed an enterprise app

uxdesign.cc

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Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#91

Post by Mindwipe »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

Hallelujah. It's not just enterprise apps, either. I've seen more than a few consumer app redesigns that just seemed to tack on the "clean", "minimalist", "whitespace" ethos, without really having a clue of an understanding of how users actually used the product. I think this is a big factor in what killed slashdot. They did a big redesign years back that added a lot of whitespace but actually made it incredibly diff…

Also worth noting - consumer app or website designs that cram negative space everywhere are almost always slow as shit to use compared to their older "ugly" replacements. The way new Reddit renders content is an excellent case in point. An older example is the Guardian website - it's design about four or five years ago was despised by users (which was ignored) because it was slow and made using the site slower.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#92

Post by arkitaip »

mrfredward wrote: post #75

There is a certain irony in reading about wasted screen space on Medium. That uncloseable banner on the bottom is driving me a bit crazy.

If you use uBlock Origin or compatible ad blocker, you can remove most Medium nonsense across all domains by adding these filters:

##.overlay-dialog

##.overlay

##.u-fixed

##.metabar

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#93

Post by noir_lord »

varikin wrote: post #27
duxup wrote: post #8

One point: >Are there things my users really don’t need to see right now? If you don’t know, ask! ASK! ASK! ASK! For the love of god please ask your users. I worked for a company with a big clunky enterprise app. It got redesigned numerous times and rolled out with big fanfare. Nobody who used for any significant amount of time was involved in any of the redesigns. It was horrible every time with numerous changes jus…

> ASK! ASK! ASK! Except users lie all the time. They don't know what they need or want. People are horrible at being logical about what will actually help them. Watch them work. Watch a bunch of people work. Test and prototype changes and watch more people work. And watch them work at their desk or where ever they work.

I've found its not that they lie (all the time) it's that often they don't have the time or mental energy to figure out what they want and even if they do they lack the tools to communicate it.

That is fundamentally a human problem and I'm not sure what technology can really do to significantly improve the solution which is to slog through it and listen to feedback.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#94

Post by ASpring »

The real problem here is the lack of UX Research that went into designing the new interface. All of this could have been foreseen before the design project even started.

The whole point of UX research is to avoid expensive redesigns/features/products that users don't want. It is future oriented and pays for itself tenfold in avoided missteps in the product lifecycle.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#95

Post by thirdsun »

dictum wrote: post #11

I feel like the author really wanted a scapegoat for a process that was flawed from the start (redesigning a product without research, empathy with users, feedback, gradual introduction with small test groups etc.) Too often I see UX issues blamed on visual choices — the whole everything must be flat movement of 2013-2018 is one example — when there are deeper issues that can't be extracted into a pithy recommendatio…

Exactly. Proper white spacing shouldn’t be the problem of any redesign.

Also consider that users often have a tendency to rebel against change. Habits and routines are hard to overcome and the actual might be that features and data simply aren’t in the same place they used to be, regardless of if that new location is much more reasonable. I saw it again and again: Users memorize hard-coded paths to certain functions - simply changing the name, appearance or position of certain elements along that path was enough to throw them completely off the track.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#96

Post by vectorEQ »

remember a guy who worked in some fany BLUE in basic developed application for accounting on his dosbox windows xp. he wanted a new tool, he had a bunch of web apps made for him, but all the time he hit the simple fact, that page refreshes and lack of keybindings made his work incredibly tedious and slow.

Made a curses implementation of his old application so he could work full speed with the exact same interface and keys. a modern implementation of his oldskool app, so he could finally ditch dosbox and windows xp for a more modern operating system. happy chap after that, he wondered why people even use web UIs for local things.

funny lesson in that 'modern' doesn't mean 'fancy', just like in this case. you can modernise something and not make it fancy, that is what they wanted. this guy made it fancy, which is useless.

i try to tell people (hard to hear for IT people i know) that internal applications are not 'user apps' in the same sense a website is. so they should be treated differently as well. if you would ask the users what they want before redesigning the thing they use for hours a day i'm sure such mistake can be prevented.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#97

Post by Mindwipe »

fermienrico wrote: post #2

Am I the only one like dense information? There is judicious use of whitespace (Swiss layout, Brockmann et. al) and then there is the whole material UX enchilada. I prefer Foobar2000 over Apple Music. Give me dense, logical and flat layout over 50 page long hierarchical layout full of whitespace. Whitespace is tiring when used extensively.

Whitespace is toxic in design.

As a trend I can't wait for it to die in fire.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#98

Post by potta_coffee »

varikin wrote: post #27
duxup wrote: post #8

One point: >Are there things my users really don’t need to see right now? If you don’t know, ask! ASK! ASK! ASK! For the love of god please ask your users. I worked for a company with a big clunky enterprise app. It got redesigned numerous times and rolled out with big fanfare. Nobody who used for any significant amount of time was involved in any of the redesigns. It was horrible every time with numerous changes jus…

> ASK! ASK! ASK! Except users lie all the time. They don't know what they need or want. People are horrible at being logical about what will actually help them. Watch them work. Watch a bunch of people work. Test and prototype changes and watch more people work. And watch them work at their desk or where ever they work.

It's true, but you still need to ask, and watch them work. But what it often comes down to is that the company underestimates the effort involved, they push you to rush the process, and communication is the first thing to suffer.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#99

Post by ErikVandeWater »

foobarrio wrote: post #90
varikin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ASK! ASK! ASK! Except users lie all the time. They don't know what they need or want. People are horrible at being logical about what will actually help them. Watch them work. Watch a bunch of people work. Test and prototype changes and watch more people work. And watch them work at their desk or where ever they work.

Consider their response an input signal and not necessarily instruction from them. If my little niece comes crying saying there is a monster under her bed, of course I know it's not a monster but I'll still go look. Maybe a toy is under there making a noise, or the heater pipes, or the cat is moving stuff around.

This is how you get your kid eaten by monsters.

But in all seriousness, this is a good point. In addition, you have to think about the user you are listening to. Are they smart? What terminology do they know that other users don't? Maybe they figured out a workaround to some problematic UI already, and you can just make that workaround global.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#100

Post by fermienrico »

Tepix wrote: post #51
fermienrico wrote: post #2

Am I the only one like dense information? There is judicious use of whitespace (Swiss layout, Brockmann et. al) and then there is the whole material UX enchilada. I prefer Foobar2000 over Apple Music. Give me dense, logical and flat layout over 50 page long hierarchical layout full of whitespace. Whitespace is tiring when used extensively.

The learning curve is much steeper with a dense interface. So if you only use a software occasionally you may be better off with a friendly looking interface that hides stuff from you unless you need it.

You make a really good point. Checking into a flight should not be buried into some dense corner of the website. Users need to do that in one click and not very often. A retail POS UI that's used daily should be optimized for dense logical layout at the expense of learning curve.
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