Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Israel handles airport security

thestar.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 168 posts

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#91

Post by Benjo »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #20
credo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree on both counts. 1. Costs: I think the value of preventing a terrorist attack greatly outweighs the $76/passenger cost of screening. Besides, it contributes a lot of value to the economy by (a) reducing the long lines we have in our airports today and (b) eliminating the unnecessary intrusive procedures 2. Racial profiling: Behavioral profiling is not the same as racial profiling. Besides do you really thin…

On 1), the average person's wage is about $21/hour. Even if the average airline passenger's hourly wage is double that, such a system will still need to reduce wait times by almost 2 hours to be cost effective. (Yes, I am making the dubious assumption that all time saved will be spent working. The economic benefits drop even further if you don't assume this.)

Half the people at the airport are working and the other half are buying things that are overpriced. If you think the economy isn't wringing the full value out of idle airport time, I have a Delta credit card application and a rental DVD player for you.

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#92

Post by harisenbon »

alex_c wrote: post #39
nodata wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask how are you comparing costs here? 76 dollars per passenger is an obscene amount of money: look at the dollar totals. In terms of lives saved, the TSA is already a gigantic waste of money. You could save a lot more lives per dollar by doing hundreds of other different things.

$77 per passenger is a huge amount, especially compared to the cost of a cheap domestic flight. But what is the hidden cost of the clusterfuck that American airports are becoming? I would gladly pay an extra $38 per flight if it meant going through a sane, competent, and, if not pleasant, at least not overtly hostile system.

Why not even make it opt in?

Ticket price plus a 38 dollar "treat me like a human being" tax.

I'd pay it.

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#93

Post by krelian »

srean wrote: post #90

Despite the overwhelming possibility of being downvoted it needs mention that the Israeli model as practiced may not be that good an example for US to follow. It has been documented by several respected human rights organizations and UN that Israel's security measures are often used as a proxy for punishment and harassment for disagreeing with the official govt line. In spite of some erosion of liberties in US in the…

Did you even read the article?

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#94

Post by aberkowitz »

harisenbon wrote: post #92
alex_c wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$77 per passenger is a huge amount, especially compared to the cost of a cheap domestic flight. But what is the hidden cost of the clusterfuck that American airports are becoming? I would gladly pay an extra $38 per flight if it meant going through a sane, competent, and, if not pleasant, at least not overtly hostile system.

Why not even make it opt in? Ticket price plus a 38 dollar "treat me like a human being" tax. I'd pay it.

What has it come to when we have to pay more, just to be treated as humans?

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#95

Post by coderintherye »

harisenbon wrote: post #92
alex_c wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$77 per passenger is a huge amount, especially compared to the cost of a cheap domestic flight. But what is the hidden cost of the clusterfuck that American airports are becoming? I would gladly pay an extra $38 per flight if it meant going through a sane, competent, and, if not pleasant, at least not overtly hostile system.

Why not even make it opt in? Ticket price plus a 38 dollar "treat me like a human being" tax. I'd pay it.

I'm pretty sure that is the idea behind the clear pass http://www.clearme.com/

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#96

Post by wheels »

RyanMcGreal wrote: post #74
SkyMarshal wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds from the article that the Israeli airport security personal are all ex-IDF. It's a job they naturally matriculate into after serving their required 2yrs in the IDF. I am not an expert, but I imagine that given the primary mission of the IDF in dealing with Palestine, they probably receive training and some experience (depending on where they are assigned) in how to spot potential terrorists using behavioral…

>It sounds from the article that the Israeli airport security personal are all ex-IDF. Every Israeli adult is ex-IDF, except for those adults who are still in the IDF.

Not true. About a quarter of men and a third of women do not enlist: http://www.haaretz.com/news/idf-nearly-28-of-israeli-males-a...

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#97

Post by dc2k08 »

ig1 wrote: post #67
SandB0x wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idan, I don't think you're really contradicting what I've written (especially with the Sephardic thing). I didn't deny that racial profiling took place at all, nor did I debate its merits or ethical status, I was asserting that it's not in any way the only factor. About your friends, it could be partly self-fulfilling. If they think they're going to be given extra treatment they might understandably act in a more ner…

As a brit I'd be more worried about them stealing my passport then giving me hassle directly :-) (For those not aware: Israel got caught cloning passports of Brits travelling through their airports for identity theft purposes, despite the fact they had made an earlier promise not to do this again)

It beggars belief that the EU is allowing the transfer of it's citizens sensitive personal data there. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2010/1112/12242831...

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#98

Post by Natsu »

hrabago wrote: post #76
bruceboughton wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would make sense if they actually put some thought into identifying threats, rather than simply confiscating items previously used in thwarted attacks.

This is the part that disappoints me the most, especially after the toner ban. I would expect this from the third world country I came from, where actors win elections because they play likable characters in movies, but not here in the US.

> I would expect this from the third world country I came from, where actors win elections because they play likable characters in movies, but not here in the US.

In that case, I'm going to have to disappoint you about American politics by mentioning Ronald Reagan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jerry Springer, Clint Eastwood, Howard Stern, Shirley Temple, Al Franken & co. were all both. I guess I'm less sure about the "likable characters" part, and at least one of those failed to actually get elected (but became an ambassador instead), but even so, I'm only mentioning the more famous ones.

There are quite a few more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_actor-politic...

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#99

Post by aberkowitz »

devinj wrote: post #72
prawn wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered re knives - couldn't you just take on carefully pre-fractured plastic that you snapped once on board?

No, you'd take a ceramic knife most likely. Much sharper, and still wouldn't be detected. I suspect the test is more for guns than knives.

Unless you take a homemade* ceramic knife through security, it would be spotted just like any other metal object [1].

* Good luck with that.

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFnT5INymiY#t=6m40s

Re: How Israel handles airport security

#100

Post by __david__ »

amalcon wrote: post #80
bigiain wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Israel values its security, and pays for it. According to an analysis by Bloomberg News, Israel spends around 10 times more per passenger than the United States does." I'll bet those numbers change if you include the cost of a pair of world trade center towers and the associated expenses of that incident. "Cheap and ineffective" != "inexpensive"

More comprehensive pre-flight screening could not have stopped the Sept. 11 attacks, because they did not involve sneaking contraband onto the plane. The cardboard box cutters that were used in the attack were allowed at the time.

Yeah but the Israeli style behavioural profiling very well might have flushed their intentions out.
Post reply on HN