U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#91

Post by mc32 » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 2:45 AM UTC

Daishiman wrote: post #87

mc32 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the person giving birth but the progeny. Most countries ~164 out of 194) are jus sanguinis (you inherit nationality of parent(s)) we are one of the exceptions with jus soli. We even have “birth tourism” taking advantage of our liberal policy.

False; pretty much all of the Americas are jus soli.

Not false. How is ~164 out of 194 countries jus sanguinis not most? There are approx 30 of 194 that are jus soli. How is that “false”.

And except for Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Chili and Uruguay, the rest aren’t what one would think of as “sought after”, otherwise you’d have other people trying to take advantage of their citizenship policies.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#92

Post by acdha » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 2:45 AM UTC

femiagbabiaka wrote: post #70

luckydata wrote: post #13

Honestly this is a good thing. Right now the H1B is a bullshit immigration program for cheap engineers from India and China designed to depress wages in silicon valley. A change is sorely needed, this is not big enough but it's definitely a step.

The idea that those on H1B visas are bringing wages down for software engineers is a popular one. Is it supported by data? If it isn’t, this is just thinly veiled xenophobia. Personally, I think the more diverse groups have an opportunity to come to America legally, the better.

Look at it from the other direction: large companies have fought giving H1-B workers better protections. They wouldn’t be doing that if they weren’t profiting from workers with less negotiating ability.

That’s also my position: don’t ban them, give them flexibility to switch jobs like everyone else so companies can’t hold the threat of deportation over them if they want a better deal.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#93

Post by skybrian » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 2:46 AM UTC

justinhj wrote: post #76

mc32 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should also work on a visa system for seasonal (low-skill) workers and enforce e-verify so that people don't skirt the system willy-nilly. We need foreign low skilled workers and they want to work, but we need to regulate that workforce so they don't undercut our native low-skills workforce by being unregulated and overwhelming the workforce with cheap unregulated labor.

I think you’re putting the cart before the horse. Why is there a shortage of low skilled workers in a country of 400m? Because you have illegal workers who’ve driven the price of that work below what the market legally supports. If the law was effectively enforced those low skilled jobs would pay enough for Americans

Vegetable and dairy farmers would go out of business, if prices can't be raised due to competition from imports. You'd need tariffs as well, and people would need to put up with significant price increases at the grocery store.

There are not many Americans who want their kids to grow up to be farmhands or migrant workers. If you can speak English, you're better off in retail. For immigrants, there is a valuable benefit that makes it all worth it: being able to live in the US. Without that incentive, it's going to be really tough.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#94

Post by joshe » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 2:46 AM UTC

I've worked with a few H1-B holders in Silicon Valley and they're awesome.

A great improvement would be to allow H1B holders to change jobs easily (maybe after a year). It's too easy for them to get stuck in not great situations. It would be great for everyone if they could move to better fitting jobs, especially for startups who have trouble running H1-B programs.

If you are, like me, a software engineer, you should cheer every immigrant. They aren't competitors, they are complements and create more jobs. Economics is complicated and sometimes counterintuitive, but just because "immigrants lower wages" is "common knowledge" doesn't make it true. [1]

To prime your intuition a bit, consider how woman and minorities more than doubled the work force from the 1960s to 1990s with no loss in jobs or lowering of wages.

And if you are in SV consider that more than half of public tech companies were created by 1st and 2nd generation immigrants. 1st generation founders include Sergey Brin, Max Levchin, Peter Thiel, Elon Musk, Pierre Omidyar, Stewart Butterfield, Sebastion Thrun, and Patrick and John Collison. [2]

[1] https://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/page1-econ/2014...

[2] https://www.recode.net/2018/5/30/17385226/kleiner-perkins-ma...

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#95

Post by ojbyrne » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 2:47 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #25

luckydata wrote: post #13

Honestly this is a good thing. Right now the H1B is a bullshit immigration program for cheap engineers from India and China designed to depress wages in silicon valley. A change is sorely needed, this is not big enough but it's definitely a step.

They should also work on a visa system for seasonal (low-skill) workers and enforce e-verify so that people don't skirt the system willy-nilly. We need foreign low skilled workers and they want to work, but we need to regulate that workforce so they don't undercut our native low-skills workforce by being unregulated and overwhelming the workforce with cheap unregulated labor.

Something like the H-2B visa? https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-worker...

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#96

Post by vba » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 2:47 AM UTC

sodosopa wrote: post #69

reedhen32 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a weird world we live in though, where PhDs and Masters with a steady job still have to wait 7-10+ years for citizenship, while people can just flip over the fence in the southern border and get citizenship via asylum or birthing kids

The PhD on my team got through in less than 7. The immigrants crossing the southern border are still going through the same process, don't know why someone wanting a better life should cause high-skilled workers much worry.

Got a green card or got citizenship?

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#97

Post by ttul » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 2:50 AM UTC

joshe wrote: post #94

I've worked with a few H1-B holders in Silicon Valley and they're awesome. A great improvement would be to allow H1B holders to change jobs easily (maybe after a year). It's too easy for them to get stuck in not great situations. It would be great for everyone if they could move to better fitting jobs, especially for startups who have trouble running H1-B programs. If you are, like me, a software engineer, you should…

Stewart is still pretty Canadian... His primary residence is in Vancouver last I checked. I mean, the whole city would probably start crying if he permanently left.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#98

Post by ones_and_zeros » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 2:52 AM UTC

joshe wrote: post #94

I've worked with a few H1-B holders in Silicon Valley and they're awesome. A great improvement would be to allow H1B holders to change jobs easily (maybe after a year). It's too easy for them to get stuck in not great situations. It would be great for everyone if they could move to better fitting jobs, especially for startups who have trouble running H1-B programs. If you are, like me, a software engineer, you should…

A great improvement would be to give them citizenship if they want it.

The economic impact of immigrants is not under debate, however your examples are poor choices as I don't think any of those people came to the US on an H1B visa. If anything it's an argument against H1B.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#99

Post by thesausageking » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 2:55 AM UTC

joshe wrote: post #94

I've worked with a few H1-B holders in Silicon Valley and they're awesome. A great improvement would be to allow H1B holders to change jobs easily (maybe after a year). It's too easy for them to get stuck in not great situations. It would be great for everyone if they could move to better fitting jobs, especially for startups who have trouble running H1-B programs. If you are, like me, a software engineer, you should…

H1-B holders can change jobs. The employer you're going to has to sponsor you and then you can just do an H1-B transfer.

Re: U.S. Changes Visa Process for High-Skilled Workers

#100

Post by skybrian » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 2:55 AM UTC

wyldfire wrote: post #55

mc32 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Punish employers with heavy fines for e-verify violations. If no one hires you, no reason to stick around. This is what Japan does, Korea, Taiwan, etc. The US is way lenient on illegal entry and accommodating to irregular workers. In many countries the only way you get around that is if you work with the local mobsters --so only highly risk taking indivs take that opportunity.

IIRC employers avoid this liability by executing the fraud themselves. There's no e-verify violation because they use legitimate SSNs from a living person, fraudulently. The workers aren't the problem, the employers are. Legislators and govt executives look the other way in order to preserve competitive agriculture.

It's my understanding that farmers avoid this by subcontracting. They don't hire migrant workers themselves. When you're desperate to get the harvest in, you don't vet your subcontractors too closely if they say they can do the job.