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Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

nytimes.com

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Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#91

Post by msla »

rayiner wrote: post #45

There was a big push to wire up rural areas in the early 2000s. It didn’t happen everywhere, but it happened in quite a few places that can serve as data points. Here in Maryland there is quite a bit of municipal fiber covering the areas Verizon FiOS doesn’t. Some of it has been in place since the early 2000s. Are those communities with fiber doing better than those without it, economically? They’re not doing any bet…

> This is not a “build it and they will come” situation. Many places built it. Nobody came.

Yes, sadly, paved roads are not a magical fairy dust.

No, wait... electrification isn't a fairy dust. My mistake.

No, wait... phones aren't magic.

No, wait...

/s

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#92

Post by robertcorey »

Retric wrote: post #51
ForHackernews wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a big part of the reason (western) digital nomads go to Southeast Asia is for the tropical weather and exoticism. It would be hard for small town America to replicate those experiences.

Exotic locations stop being so after you live in them for a few years. Time zone issues can end up as a real pain, which makes the US rather appealing. Weather wise most of Florida is really cheap and Hawaii can be surprisingly affordable a few miles from the beach. So, I suspect the digital nomads living in Asia stereotype is more about them being interesting than that many people actually doing so.

Well you could live in Bangkok or you could live in some shithole in florida for 3x the price...

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#93

Post by robertcorey »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #69
ForHackernews wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a big part of the reason (western) digital nomads go to Southeast Asia is for the tropical weather and exoticism. It would be hard for small town America to replicate those experiences.

There are probably a lot of other reasons that it would not be socially acceptable to admit to. Being an obvious foreigner can signal you have money and power without you having to say a word about it. In contrast, relocating to a small town in the US wouldn't bring such perks of establishing that the poverty stricken locals should defer to you and cater to you. Instead, you would be an outsider trying to "prove" you…

Or you think to yourself "I spend all my time on the computer, it doesn't really matter where I live, I should go somewhere warm and cheap"

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#94

Post by Retric »

randomdata wrote: post #70
Retric wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. There where ~2.2 million us farms in 1982. It dropped to ~2 million in 2002 but it’s still ~2 million today. Many of theses are more hobby projects than giant industrial operations. Even still giant subsidy’s keeps the farm sector from the kind of massive consolidation you see in most industries.

> Even still giant subsidy’s keeps the farm sector from the kind of massive consolidation you see in most industries. The bulk of the massive subsidy received by farms is crop insurance premium assistance though. No doubt a huge benefit if you have a weather disaster, but not anything you see directly until you have a disaster, and that only provides stability in those freak years. I am not sure that alone is keeping…

Crop insurance is 8.5 billion out of $23 billion in subsidies directly given to farmers. Divide by 3.2 million farmers and that’s 7,200$ per year each.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#95

Post by bcherny »

rayiner wrote: post #45

There was a big push to wire up rural areas in the early 2000s. It didn’t happen everywhere, but it happened in quite a few places that can serve as data points. Here in Maryland there is quite a bit of municipal fiber covering the areas Verizon FiOS doesn’t. Some of it has been in place since the early 2000s. Are those communities with fiber doing better than those without it, economically? They’re not doing any bet…

Could it be that you need to first invest in fiber, then you need to invest in other things like small business incentives and attracting VC?

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#96

Post by DoreenMichele »

robertcorey wrote: post #93
DoreenMichele wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are probably a lot of other reasons that it would not be socially acceptable to admit to. Being an obvious foreigner can signal you have money and power without you having to say a word about it. In contrast, relocating to a small town in the US wouldn't bring such perks of establishing that the poverty stricken locals should defer to you and cater to you. Instead, you would be an outsider trying to "prove" you…

Or you think to yourself "I spend all my time on the computer, it doesn't really matter where I live, I should go somewhere warm and cheap"

Sure. It's all about you and what works for you. No need to spend a nanosecond wondering how you impact the fabric of society by your choices.

(She says as she sits here wondering if anyone will get the irony of a rebuttal saying, in essence, "I'm not callously mistreating anyone! I was only thinking about me, me, me, me, me when I made this decision! I gave others no thought At All, thus my behavior couldn't possibly be negatively impacting them!")

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#97

Post by downrightmike »

bcherny wrote: post #95
rayiner wrote: post #45

There was a big push to wire up rural areas in the early 2000s. It didn’t happen everywhere, but it happened in quite a few places that can serve as data points. Here in Maryland there is quite a bit of municipal fiber covering the areas Verizon FiOS doesn’t. Some of it has been in place since the early 2000s. Are those communities with fiber doing better than those without it, economically? They’re not doing any bet…

Could it be that you need to first invest in fiber, then you need to invest in other things like small business incentives and attracting VC?

The crux of the problem is that people only talk about jobs, and other people/corporations creating those jobs. Everyone can agree we need more jobs and better jobs. The real issue is that people aren't finding ways to start their own business, make themselves a job. Politicians use the word "jobs" like saying it makes them appear. And too many people think that is how is should work. Those people miss out. Make a good business for yourself and people will throw money at you.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#98

Post by Retric »

ForHackernews wrote: post #74
Retric wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exotic locations stop being so after you live in them for a few years. Time zone issues can end up as a real pain, which makes the US rather appealing. Weather wise most of Florida is really cheap and Hawaii can be surprisingly affordable a few miles from the beach. So, I suspect the digital nomads living in Asia stereotype is more about them being interesting than that many people actually doing so.

Hawai'i is "surprisingly affordable" only relative to the Bay Area. All labor is at first-world American rates and so many things have to be shipped in. Maybe it's an option for wealthy Silicon Valley escapees, but it's surely not a solution for the economic woes of middle America.

I am mostly talking digital nomads lifestyles.

You can buy a nice 2br condo for 50k. That’s cheap compared to most major US cities. High speed internet for 50$/ month is generally available and you pay ~75c / lb to get computer equipment shipped out which is a minimal increase.

Mostly it’s just food and energy prices that are a little high, but that’s not nessisarily a huge budget item. 40k is easily comfortable if you don’t need to travel or have kids.

That said, the median income is also significantly higher than the rest of the US. And things get crazy if you want to live near the ocean, and travel regularly.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#99

Post by scarejunba »

nvo wrote: post #13
scarejunba wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, it's not prejudice when it's based in fact. If people don't want to be called homophobic, they have to just stop being against gay marriage. Wise enough to know it's wrong to be against gay marriage, not wise enough to stop being against it. What an interesting saddle point in the moral curve!

First, you're generalising, which is exactly what you complain they do. Second, they should be free to take any political stance that they want.

Oh they're welcome to it. But they aren't going to get the fancy jobs because no one wants to live with their insanity.

Civil rights ain't just "political stance" homie.

It's all right, though. Nobody is going to move tech jobs there so long as they stay evil.

And it's not generalizing any more than saying that a cup of ice-cream that is 47% vanilla and 53% shit is shit ice-cream.

Re: Ways to Bring Tech Jobs to Rural Areas

#100

Post by adrianN »

jonstewart wrote: post #64
LeanderK wrote: post #42

well, germany is quite spread out and has lots of tech in smaller towns. It's not always perfect and we are also struggeling with some things, but I think a few approaches can be emulated. First, I think it's important that the small town is not on it's own, but in a close neighborhood of other smaller towns with which it's cooperating a lot. For a serious tech economy, even small towns need a working ecosystem (and…

Germany has a good railway system that connects many (most? all?) small villages with nearby towns with nearby cities. More importantly, its rural population density is an order of magnitude greater than the US, at 237/km^2 vs 35/km^2 (source: https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/rural-population-percen... , https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/rural-population-... ). The biggest misconception that I’ve found m…

IMHO average population density is an almost meaningless number, because population density is not even close to a distribution where the mean is informative. I'm not sure whether it's the case in the US, but it's perfectly possible to have a tiny average population density and yet areas where small and medium towns are not too far apart from each other. You don't have to have rail service connection a tiny town in Arkansas to New York, it's sufficient if there is a train to the next city with its own cinema.
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