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Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

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Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#91

Post by cabalamat »

MichaelGG wrote: post #48
ericflo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are those people the same ones who would buy into an early-stage functional programming language like F#?

Both sets of people can be present in the same company. There have been postings in the F# forums of devs wanting to use F# because they know it's good, but being very clear that corporate policy is going to restrict them unless certain conditions are met. Whether IP concerns from open source contribs is one of these, I dunno. Nitpick: F# is really a multi-paradigm language. It truly does provide OO, functional, scri…

> There have been postings in the F# forums of devs wanting to use F# because they know it's good, but being very clear that corporate policy is going to restrict them unless certain conditions are met.

Maybe the F# people should rename it "C# Functional", then the devs can write code in it and if the managers say anything, just tell them it's part of C#, and they'll be none the wiser.

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#92

Post by aaronbrethorst »

kamechan wrote: post #36
gphil wrote: post #2

This is a good move. With Java under Oracle's control, Microsoft has a lot to gain by embracing open source licensing.

agreed. excellent move on their part. not to mention that i'm continually impressed by what the folks at MSR put out. some smart folks, those ones. i've always found it odd that the environment there seems so contrary to that in redmond. i guess that's marketing for you. now if they'd only do the same for the .net framework. i'm uncertain about java's future myself as are many of my friends who have invested a lot in…

I finally had a chance to follow up on this, and yes, Moonlight at least, is officially condoned by Microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com/interop/msnovellcollab/newmoonlight...

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#93

Post by Tamerlin »

kamechan wrote: post #36
gphil wrote: post #2

This is a good move. With Java under Oracle's control, Microsoft has a lot to gain by embracing open source licensing.

agreed. excellent move on their part. not to mention that i'm continually impressed by what the folks at MSR put out. some smart folks, those ones. i've always found it odd that the environment there seems so contrary to that in redmond. i guess that's marketing for you. now if they'd only do the same for the .net framework. i'm uncertain about java's future myself as are many of my friends who have invested a lot in…

AFAIK Microsoft has even contributed code to the Mono project.

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#94

Post by Tamerlin »

aphexairlines wrote: post #5
gphil wrote: post #2

This is a good move. With Java under Oracle's control, Microsoft has a lot to gain by embracing open source licensing.

Does the Apache license include patent licensing? Java is open source too.

Only OpenJDK is open source. Other than that, Java is closed -- and to certify a Java implementation, you have to pay a license fee, which not the case for .NET.

IMO were it not for the Oracle acquisition, it would be a matter of time until Java were fully open sourced, but with Oracle in charge now I suspect that it's not going to happen.

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#95

Post by icey »

cabalamat wrote: post #91
MichaelGG wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both sets of people can be present in the same company. There have been postings in the F# forums of devs wanting to use F# because they know it's good, but being very clear that corporate policy is going to restrict them unless certain conditions are met. Whether IP concerns from open source contribs is one of these, I dunno. Nitpick: F# is really a multi-paradigm language. It truly does provide OO, functional, scri…

> There have been postings in the F# forums of devs wanting to use F# because they know it's good, but being very clear that corporate policy is going to restrict them unless certain conditions are met. Maybe the F# people should rename it "C# Functional", then the devs can write code in it and if the managers say anything, just tell them it's part of C#, and they'll be none the wiser.

Someone here had a good way to do this (sorry, my google-fu is not strong enough to find the link):

"What language do you use?"

".Net"

"Oh, OK"

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#96

Post by nailer »

riffraff wrote: post #88
nailer wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Java is open source too. I don't think that's correct. AFAIK there's no certified OSS Java. And if it isn't certified, it can't be called Java. It would be correct to say there's Open Source 'Java compatible' environments.

openjdk is not certified java? I know harmony did not get a tck but it seems unlikely oracle is not letting their own developers use it.

I'm not sure to be honest. The actual JRE based on OpenJDK has additions to the code according to http://openjdk.java.net. I couldn't find anything called 'Java' that wasn't this code.

The OpenJDK FAQ is of course 404ing. Thanks Oracle.

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#97

Post by pufuwozu »

face wrote: post #85
MichaelGG wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you haven't heard of http://mono-project.com . The F# team tries to ensure it works well on Mono, and the same for the Mono team. On top of that, the specifications for the CLR are standardized.

Kind of like how I cannot watch netflix on my linux machine, despite mono and moonlight?

The DRM technology is the only part of Silverlight that isn't licensed to Moonlight.

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#98

Post by kamechan »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #92
kamechan wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agreed. excellent move on their part. not to mention that i'm continually impressed by what the folks at MSR put out. some smart folks, those ones. i've always found it odd that the environment there seems so contrary to that in redmond. i guess that's marketing for you. now if they'd only do the same for the .net framework. i'm uncertain about java's future myself as are many of my friends who have invested a lot in…

I finally had a chance to follow up on this, and yes, Moonlight at least, is officially condoned by Microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com/interop/msnovellcollab/newmoonlight...

interesting tell in the url, that novell is involved. may be a good way for microsoft to let some things go OSS without directly doing it through collabs with novell, who already has a foothold in the market. one can hope anyway. i like a lot of the microsoft technologies, i just wish they'd let it roam freely.

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#99

Post by SkyMarshal »

riffraff wrote: post #31
SkyMarshal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haskell, Ocaml, and Scala? All are open languages, cross platform, and first two at least are Free. And Scala runs on both the JVM and .NET, covering all three platforms. Is that what you meant?

I believe by "haskell" you may mean "ghc"

I did mean ghc, though I just assume everyone assumes you mean ghc unless you specify otherwise. GHC seems to be the standard.

Re: Microsoft releases F# under Apache 2.0 license

#100

Post by gtani »

contextfree wrote: post #83
SkyMarshal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haskell, Ocaml, and Scala? All are open languages, cross platform, and first two at least are Free. And Scala runs on both the JVM and .NET, covering all three platforms. Is that what you meant?

AFAIK the Scala .NET implementation is still pretty raw (though there's at least more activity on the project recently).

AFAIK, {{Scala actors and akka only work on hotSpot (there may be other language features tied to hotspot)

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2987408/actors-in-scala-n...

There's only 1 guy working on it but he's been going at it furiously

http://lamp.epfl.ch/~magarcia/ScalaCompilerCornerReloaded/

(do they feel itchy about using the LAMP subdomain?

I think it has been decided that the JVM will always be the LCDenominator VM (e.g. implmentations on other VM's pretend type erasure is happening, for compatibility with JVM implementation)

}}

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