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Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

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Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#91

Post by et2o »

lsmarigo wrote: post #63
jseliger wrote: post #5

My dad used to work in local government and likes to call the automatic opposition, "People united against anything." Today we call them NIMBYs. California has empowered them in peculiar and powerful ways, as anyone, anywhere, can challenge any project under the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA), which actually supersedes the national version (NEQA).

"California has empowered them in peculiar and powerful ways" Fun example of this is John Wayne airport in Orange County pilots do a special takooff involving cutting power to engines to reduce noise for Newport Beach neighborhood below dating back to a lawsuit from the 80s.

This seems reasonable to me. If they can take off while reducing nose pollution, they should.

I wonder if they do this at other airports located in of near cities such as LGA.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#92

Post by anonymou2 »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #74
cujo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would question if it would actually lower traffic, or just allow more people to travel.

>or just allow more people to travel. Which is an increase in quality of life for those who would have otherwise forgone those trips. Either way it's a win. Whether it's a big enough win to be worth the cost is a perpetual debate with projects like this.

An increase in quality of life? Really? Who is to tell? Maybe those people would have done something more fulfilling instead of whatever they did as the porpose of those trips.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#93

Post by mikeash »

jimmy1 wrote: post #65
jseliger wrote: post #5

My dad used to work in local government and likes to call the automatic opposition, "People united against anything." Today we call them NIMBYs. California has empowered them in peculiar and powerful ways, as anyone, anywhere, can challenge any project under the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA), which actually supersedes the national version (NEQA).

Call me crazy, but as an outsider looking in with attachment to California (many friends moved from there, brother's wife from there, I visit often), isn't part of their empowerment of NIMBY's out of fear that if they don't empower them they will straight up leave? Owning a home in California close to any of the economic centers sounds like one of the hardest endeavors one could embark upon, I imagine if you don't gi…

California's insane housing prices (at least near the aforementioned economic centers) indicates that people are clamoring to move there. If you drive people away, more will replace them, possibly after causing prices to drop somewhat.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#94

Post by mattigames »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #74
cujo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would question if it would actually lower traffic, or just allow more people to travel.

>or just allow more people to travel. Which is an increase in quality of life for those who would have otherwise forgone those trips. Either way it's a win. Whether it's a big enough win to be worth the cost is a perpetual debate with projects like this.

The biggest win -if it works as expected- would be the influence on other cities to do similar projects and focus on creating fast-and-electric-powered alternatives to move cars; also there may be a gain in safety issues due not relying in the driving skills of its users.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#95

Post by rchaud »

leesec wrote: post #12
imglorp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about the continued negativity on this. Hasn't he pretty much accomplished everything he has said? Batteries, cars, solar, space, it's all working.

Honestly, I cannot help but get frustrated even though I know I shouldn't. How are people rooting against this person? Do they not want space exploration/green technology/incredible cars/transportation innovation/globally accessible satellite internet/self driving cars/etc? I don't even really understand where the hate comes from, because he missed a few deadlines, because he dreams big? I'm sure his critics have mis…

The "hate" you speak of occurs on online comment sections only, and is likely a reaction to the sometimes cult-like devotion professed by his admirers.

This devotion is also fueled by Musk himself, who invests in positive PR (just look at any submission from Elektrek on this forum) and pretends to be a nerdy everyman on Twitter to appear to be "relatable".

Perhaps to his admirers, it seems like he's"just trying to help" when he proposes submarines for the Thai cave rescue. To outside observers, it looks like a cynical attempt to capitalize on the publicity around the rescue efforts for free. It's gauche when a normal person does it, and becomes in extremely poor taste when a billionaire with real resources does it.

Comments of the "He's trying to save the world, can't you see?" variety mix freely with the "this is a conspiracy against Tesla by big auto/big oil" comments that pop up anytime bad news is reported.

At the end of the day, neither Elon nor Tesla are hurting because of online comments.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#96

Post by newaccoutnas »

leesec wrote: post #66
readhn wrote: post #57

well, im not sure where this tunnel would be located BUT if he was digging under my $500,000-1,000,000 residential house (or whatever the prices there are) or my commercial property i sure as hell would sue the billionaire all the way to the bank as well. For him its just "playing games" oh let me dig a tunnel so i can skip the traffic on MY way to work. For me - its my livelihood - house is a single biggest purchase…

The tunnels will not impact the people above them, you won't even notice them being dug if they were directly beneath you.

During the construction of the Crossrail development in London, they had to 'thread a needle' in terms of tunneling underneath the Barbican Theatre. They were tunnelling directly below (metres away!) whilst people were still enjoying shows in the theatre.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#97

Post by HillaryBriss »

dpcx wrote: post #33
wyldfire wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet development should take the environment into consideration because it can have massive consequences. Those consequences are ultimately an externality of the development project and evaluating it in advance can help inform the true financials of the project.

I wonder whether those that were taking the environment in to consideration for the development thought beyond the project to what environmental impacts could be lessened by the project. I'm not a Musk fanboy, but if these tunnels will work the way he's suggesting, the amount of traffic that would be removed from the roads (and by extension, the pollution) would probably be a net benefit to the environment.

> the amount of traffic that would be removed from the roads

seriously, how would that work?

any expansion of road capacity in LA is immediately used up and oversaturated. if you build it they will come. if you free roads up by providing an alternative like Musk's tunnel system, someone else will still come and fill the roads back up, because, "hey, traffic is moving again."

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#98

Post by ihuman »

choxi wrote: post #56
traditionalist wrote: post #10

Why doesn't Musk take his business elsewhere where he's welcome? I can imagine LA being a nightmare for this sort of project. He needs a place where bureaucracy is thinner and people are actually excited about everything new.

He's building us an express loop in Chicago: https://www.boringcompany.com/chicago/ They're even paying for the whole thing, I think most residents here are excited about it.

The Boring company also plans to build a loop from DC to Baltimore, and it will also be self-funded.

https://www.boringcompany.com/eastcoast/

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#99

Post by mikeash »

et2o wrote: post #91
lsmarigo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"California has empowered them in peculiar and powerful ways" Fun example of this is John Wayne airport in Orange County pilots do a special takooff involving cutting power to engines to reduce noise for Newport Beach neighborhood below dating back to a lawsuit from the 80s.

This seems reasonable to me. If they can take off while reducing nose pollution, they should. I wonder if they do this at other airports located in of near cities such as LGA.

It's a pretty common thing. Here's a long survey and discussion of various noise abatement procedures that I haven't actually read through: https://www.icao.int/environmental-protection/Documents/Revi...

I have some mildly related personal experience as well. The glider club I belong to started getting noise complaints from people living near the airport. On a busy day, our tow plane might make 25 takeoffs. We often took the same path every time, repeatedly annoying the same people. We started varying our routes and also replaced the propellor with a quieter one and everybody was happy.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#100

Post by readhn »

crysin wrote: post #88
readhn wrote: post #57

well, im not sure where this tunnel would be located BUT if he was digging under my $500,000-1,000,000 residential house (or whatever the prices there are) or my commercial property i sure as hell would sue the billionaire all the way to the bank as well. For him its just "playing games" oh let me dig a tunnel so i can skip the traffic on MY way to work. For me - its my livelihood - house is a single biggest purchase…

Why would you live in a place where people have to approve what you want to do with your property?

because: work/children/life/friends/business?
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