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American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

nytimes.com

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Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#91

Post by setquk »

Apocryphon wrote: post #47
setquk wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly wouldn’t shoot them with an arrow but when religious door knockers come to spread the word they are chased off my property pretty rapidly. They’re not good people. They are brainwashed people selling conversion to an ideology which needs to die, sometimes even under duress from superiors and nothing more. This entire notion and behaviour is not appreciated!

Without sparking a typical science vs. religion debate, the point is that quite likely in his eyes he was trying to perform an act of charity, not of malice.

Yes this isn’t a science versus religion debate. The issue is the definition of charity, which means different things to the giver and the receiver.

I argue here that the giver was acting in self interest unable to see another perspective. I’ve been on the end of that class of charity before many times and ultimately it was about changing mindset and empowerment of the charity giver rather than helping the receiver. Whether or not this was conciously done I have yet to establish.

By any moral standard, perhaps we should let people know we’re there if we are needed and the help should be on the receiver’s terms. We’d all get along a lot better then.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#92

Post by module0000 »

swatkat wrote: post #13

What he did was illegal. Access to the island is restricted for a reason. >>> But Mr. Chau pushed ahead in his kayak, which he had packed with a Bible. After that, it is a bit of a mystery what happened. Also, can these evangelists take a break? It's not 1600s anymore.

>> Also, can these evangelists take a break? It's not 1600s anymore.

One of the Christian figurehead's final commands is paraphrased as "Go and preach the good news to everyone in the world". I speculate that's what these people are doing.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#93

Post by ryanmercer »

xutopia wrote: post #23

I'm fascinated by these people. They must have one heck of a culture to immediately resort to killing any stranger that lands on their shore. I wonder what religious beliefs they have and what kind of society creates what seems to be extreme and violent xenophobia to us. As fascinated as I am I would double check that I have something to row with if I take a motorboat out to see the island from afar. No way in hell I…

>I'm fascinated by these people. They must have one heck of a culture to immediately resort to killing any stranger that lands on their shore. I wonder what religious beliefs they have and what kind of society creates what seems to be extreme and violent xenophobia to us.

Non-human animals regularly kill outsiders that have made incursions into their territory. Chimps for example will even 'invade' neighboring territory and attack to try and grow their territory.

Male elephant seals will attempt to kill other males that are 'sneakers' that attempt to reproduce with their harem.

'violent xenophobia' is instinctual, humans however try to rise above this in many societies but in primitive cultures outsiders represent uncertainty at best.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#94

Post by verroq »

Jtsummers wrote: post #33
classicsnoot wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if your generosity in interpretation extends to modern cultures and their borders.

By "modern" I'll interpret that to mean "a nation generally participating in the global community": I'd say, they have every right to defend their borders from invaders. But they also have knowledge that these islanders don't have. They have an understanding that outsiders are not all belligerent and to be feared or non-entities to be killed (though some will act counter to that knowledge, see the stoked fear in the…

I don’t believe in moral relativism. They don’t get a pass for not knowing better. Just as their victims didn’t get a pass for not knowing better.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#95

Post by crooked-v »

verroq wrote: post #55
beat wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was actually against the law to teach Rails to the homeless, in order to protect them? Yeah.

I didn’t know that death was a proportational or appropiate sentence for this crime. And I am willing to bet that whatever Indian law he violated it wasn’t a capital offence.

Indian law is at best marginally applicable, as the Indian government treats the Sentinelese as a de facto mostly-sovereign protectorate. The use of force in repelling unwanted visitors is one of the basic prerogatives of any nation, even a very tiny one, and the Sentinelese even follow a reasonably ethical use-of-force continuum, with shouts and then warning shots before only shooting to kill if someone doesn't leave on their own.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#96

Post by qiqing »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #37
option_greek wrote: post #4

As horrific as it may sound, I hope his rotting body won't make the islanders sick. Human contact in the past had wiped out some of the Andaman tribes due to the lack of resistance to many diseases.

"According to health professionals, the fear of spread of disease by bodies killed by trauma rather than disease is not justified. Among others, Steven Rottman, director of the UCLA Center for Public Health and Disasters, said that no scientific evidence exists that bodies of disaster victims increase the risk of epidemics, adding that cadavers posed less risk of contagion than living people." https://en.wikipedia.or…

In this case, a living person would also pose a risk. These islanders don't have the same immune system that the population the health professionals are looking after have, just like Native Americans didn't have the same immune system as Europeans.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#97

Post by flocial »

JPKab wrote: post #36
deanCommie wrote: post #12

> Mr. Pathak said Mr. Chau, believed to be 26 or 27 and from Washington State, may have been trying to convert the islanders to Christianity. Right before he left in his kayak, Mr. Chau gave the fishermen a long note. In it, police officials said, he had written that Jesus had bestowed him with the strength to go to the most forbidden places on Earth. A perfect storm of Christian and American arrogance.

Please explain to me how the fact that he happens to be American is proven to be causal here? I guess you make a good point. After all, the missionaries who converted indigenous populations all over the world were all from the USA. Oh wait, no. The vast majority of the Christian missions were founded by Europeans. Arabs converted millions to Islam hundreds of years ago. But yeah, they were all infected with American…

America was simply late to the party but there is a long history of American missionaries carrying on the tradition. Hawaii wouldn't be a state if it wasn't for American missionaries.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#98

Post by iBelieve »

swatkat wrote: post #13

What he did was illegal. Access to the island is restricted for a reason. >>> But Mr. Chau pushed ahead in his kayak, which he had packed with a Bible. After that, it is a bit of a mystery what happened. Also, can these evangelists take a break? It's not 1600s anymore.

If you were convinced that something is true and that it has eternal consequences for those who reject or don't hear that message, how could you _not_ want to tell everyone about it, going to the ends of the earth and risking life itself so others could hear that message?

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#99

Post by nprz »

crooked-v wrote: post #42
xutopia wrote: post #23

I'm fascinated by these people. They must have one heck of a culture to immediately resort to killing any stranger that lands on their shore. I wonder what religious beliefs they have and what kind of society creates what seems to be extreme and violent xenophobia to us. As fascinated as I am I would double check that I have something to row with if I take a motorboat out to see the island from afar. No way in hell I…

> and what kind of society creates what seems to be extreme and violent xenophobia to us Their first major contact with the outside world was in 1880, when a British colonial administrator kidnapped six of the Sentinelese, two of whom died from disease before they could be returned - and who knows what diseases the other four brought back with them when the British dumped them back on the island.

Sad and interesting how that single event from 140 years ago still shapes the tribes beliefs.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#100

Post by neeleshs »

projectramo wrote: post #70
rustcharm wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best of intentions? To erase their culture and replace it with Chr-stianity? I don't see that as well intentioned.

Well, not for unbelievers, but if he thought their souls would be saved forever (not really clear on the metaphysics but something along those lines), then yes his intentions were good. We know those intentions have caused a lot of harm. I am not saying he should have been allowed to proceed, but that it is sad that he died.

Yes, his intentions were not universally good, just from his point of view. For many observers, his intentions were evil.

Edit : loss of human life is indeed sad, regardless of intentions or actions.

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