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Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

developers.google.com

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Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#91

Post by jolmg »

rkagerer wrote: post #70
nine_k wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you surely noticed, for last 10 years the browser is actively trying to replace your desktop OS, so that the browser would become the platform, instead of Windows / macOS / Linux / anything else. Imagine the desktop becoming ChromeOS on any computer, not just Chromebooks. For this, the browser must make all the traditional OS interfaces available. It has interfaces for accelerated 2D and 3D graphics, audio, USB, p…

Am I the only crusty old fart who thinks this a lousy trend? I worry the next talented generation of developers is being alienated from the desktop, and as a result my computing experience will degrade as Chrome's piecemeal attempts to reinvent the OS leave me with an inferior selection of browser-based toys that are awkward and clunky compared to their native counterparts. I grant the browser fixes a couple things m…

No, I hate it too. As a consumer, I wish to do my computing in my machine and not in SaaS provider's machines, having to share with them personal data when there's no technical reason to do so.

I think the main driving forces on this are:

1. It's easier for computer illiterate people to use web services, since they don't have to go through an installation process.

2. It's easier for developers to support their users because they don't have to worry about their users' computer environments, which is largely out of their control.

3. It's also harder/impossible for their users to pirate their software, since they it never runs in their machines.

I think the biggest reason (and the one harder to fix) is the piracy one.

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#92

Post by abtinf »

joshfraser wrote: post #19

One of the great things about browsers is the way you can trust them to be reasonably sandboxed from the rest of your machine. Features like this chip away at that trust model and open up new attack vectors against unsuspecting users. I get the usability benefits, but the security implications are scary. How easy would it be to trick my mother into uploading her profile picture and have the site change that file into…

Even if it doesn't result in executable code, there are dangers - browser-based ransomware attacks.

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#93

Post by randomfool »

bmm6o wrote: post #18
jcoffland wrote: post #13

This could be a great way to allow Web apps to talk to native apps. At Folding@home our client software uses a Web frontend. This frontend talks to the native Folding@home app at localhost over a socket. The problem is that browsers are starting to show security warnings for any non-https traffic and it's not possible to securely give the native app a valid SSL certificate. Reading and writing shared files would let…

You can't get a certificate for localhost, but you can get one for foldinglocalhost.com and resolve that to 127.0.0.1.

Not according to https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=378566...

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#94

Post by joshfraser »

abtinf wrote: post #92
joshfraser wrote: post #19

One of the great things about browsers is the way you can trust them to be reasonably sandboxed from the rest of your machine. Features like this chip away at that trust model and open up new attack vectors against unsuspecting users. I get the usability benefits, but the security implications are scary. How easy would it be to trick my mother into uploading her profile picture and have the site change that file into…

Even if it doesn't result in executable code, there are dangers - browser-based ransomware attacks.

That's a terrifying thought.

Congrats, you're two clicks away from having your entire machine bricked & held for ransom.

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#95

Post by bmm6o »

randomfool wrote: post #93
bmm6o wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't get a certificate for localhost, but you can get one for foldinglocalhost.com and resolve that to 127.0.0.1.

Not according to https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=378566...

That bug is stuck on not breaking exactly this kind of behavior. They cite Dropbox in that thread (though I haven't read the followups yet), who has www.dropboxlocalhost.com resolving to 127.0.0.1. It sounds like Spotify does something similar.

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#97

Post by xd1936 »

devwastaken wrote: post #78
tinyvm wrote: post #42

A couple months ago I started studying PWA. I realized PWA's potential was on Desktop and not really on mobile. I came to realize that PWA missed really two things to change Desktop for good : - Sandboxed FileSystem API - Standard Operating System Support Most apps like Slack, Discord or Twitch can barely justify their usage of Electron... beside the possibility to have those apps in a separate OS Window they don't m…

Problem with PWA: Native access, Browser versioning and seperation of processes. 1. If when you ran a .net application all .net applications shared the same parent process that'd be a significant problem. 2. Many electron clients control their versions because there are bugs, quirks, removal of features, or other changes in chromium versions. Discord last time I checked is still on 56. 3. PWA's do not have native acc…

Safari... cares about Linux?

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#98

Post by millstone »

rhlsthrm wrote: post #88
rkagerer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only crusty old fart who thinks this a lousy trend? I worry the next talented generation of developers is being alienated from the desktop, and as a result my computing experience will degrade as Chrome's piecemeal attempts to reinvent the OS leave me with an inferior selection of browser-based toys that are awkward and clunky compared to their native counterparts. I grant the browser fixes a couple things m…

But why is it always necessarily "awkward and clunky"? As always on network connection becomes more and more ubiquitous, internet connected experiences become better and better. Just look at (well-designed) experiences today like streaming video. I'm excited about things like WASM that will allow browser-based experiences to close the gap more and more with native apps. The web infrastructure is extremely powerful an…

The web is awkward and clunky because it's a document markup format with bad application APIs layered on top.

WASM solves certain problems like arithmetic being slow. This doesn't fix the web's problems; it merely enables a new class of bad apps to be written on the web.

The best streaming video services are not web based. Thank goodness Netflix and Hulu have native iPad apps to spare me their websites.

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#99

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

jolmg wrote: post #91
rkagerer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only crusty old fart who thinks this a lousy trend? I worry the next talented generation of developers is being alienated from the desktop, and as a result my computing experience will degrade as Chrome's piecemeal attempts to reinvent the OS leave me with an inferior selection of browser-based toys that are awkward and clunky compared to their native counterparts. I grant the browser fixes a couple things m…

No, I hate it too. As a consumer, I wish to do my computing in my machine and not in SaaS provider's machines, having to share with them personal data when there's no technical reason to do so. I think the main driving forces on this are: 1. It's easier for computer illiterate people to use web services, since they don't have to go through an installation process. 2. It's easier for developers to support their users…

> 3. It's also harder/impossible for their users to pirate their software, since they it never runs in their machines.

I think your second point is actually the dominant one, but you're not wrong about this either. In some sense, we get the computing landscape that we (collectively) asked for.

Re: Web Writable Files API: Simplifying Local File Access

#100

Post by millstone »

Spivak wrote: post #87
rkagerer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only crusty old fart who thinks this a lousy trend? I worry the next talented generation of developers is being alienated from the desktop, and as a result my computing experience will degrade as Chrome's piecemeal attempts to reinvent the OS leave me with an inferior selection of browser-based toys that are awkward and clunky compared to their native counterparts. I grant the browser fixes a couple things m…

Is it really surprising that in the wake of multiple platforms that refuse to interoperate that an OS that runs on top of every other OS is massively popular? It doesn't matter that it's clunky and bad, CS people love working with hard to use systems, it just matters that it works.

The websites google.com and facebook.com and twitter.com (to distinguish from their mobile apps) are very popular, but the most part these sites just render text and images.

google.com doesn't try to search my local drive. faceboook.com doesn't offer to share my local photos. Their usage of "browser as an OS" is extremely limited.

I worry about the other problem: the browser becomes so ubiquitous the OS disappears, along with any platform conventions and application interop.

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