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The Curse of the Honeycrisp Apple

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Re: The Curse of the Honeycrisp Apple

#91

Post by Alex3917 »

notable_user wrote: post #84
crazygringo wrote: post #79

This is one of the silliest articles I've ever read. > "Though it succeeded beyond anyone’s wildest dreams, along the way it became a nightmare for some producers, forcing small Northeastern growers to compete with their massive, climatically advantaged counterparts on the West Coast." > Prices for Honeycrisps Can Be 2-3x Other Apples > "So why do farmers put up with the hassle? They simply don’t have a choice. The d…

It’s a curse if you were a small orchard happily growing another apple variety. No one wants your apples anymore so you have to rip out all your trees an plant new one. (Side note: Really you’re grafting new branches.) That’s a lot of capital investment for a family business that might have been eeking along already. And, as the article says, who knows when you’ll need to switch to the next variety.

> Really you’re grafting new branches.

Where does the expense come in for grafting? Isn't the only cost basically the parafilm? I'm not a grafter, but my understanding is that you just take some branches from the varietal you want to clone, cut off the tops off your existing root stock, and then connect the root stock with the twig using some grafting tape.

Unless by capital investment you just mean the fact that you're not going to get more apples for another three years or whatever.

Re: The Curse of the Honeycrisp Apple

#92

Post by notable_user »

Alex3917 wrote: post #91
notable_user wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a curse if you were a small orchard happily growing another apple variety. No one wants your apples anymore so you have to rip out all your trees an plant new one. (Side note: Really you’re grafting new branches.) That’s a lot of capital investment for a family business that might have been eeking along already. And, as the article says, who knows when you’ll need to switch to the next variety.

> Really you’re grafting new branches. Where does the expense come in for grafting? Isn't the only cost basically the parafilm? I'm not a grafter, but my understanding is that you just take some branches from the varietal you want to clone, cut off the tops off your existing root stock, and then connect the root stock with the twig using some grafting tape. Unless by capital investment you just mean the fact that you…

I’m not a grafter myself so I don’t know the specifics. But I do know it’s not cheap. Labor intensive and I don’t think the branches are cheap, despite them growing on trees.

And yes, loss of production is a huge hit to an orchard.

Re: The Curse of the Honeycrisp Apple

#93

Post by ip26 »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #60
stcredzero wrote: post #25

I have childhood memories of going into the woods around the park to pick blackberries. The flavors to be found in good blackberries are pretty sublime. The other day, I bought a container of blackberries. Somehow, they had been reduced to bloated, flavorless bags of purple sugar water. (I suspect this is why they were a sale item.) Altering plants for better taste does have a place.

November is months past blackberry season, so you are probably buying something picked far away, before it was properly ripened, then chilled and placed in a shipping container for who knows how long.

Buying produce regularly, I've been learning exactly this. It's a mindset shift- we're trained that anything can be had any time of year. But the quality difference between in season and out of season is staggering. Except, perhaps, for apples and bananas.

Re: The Curse of the Honeycrisp Apple

#94

Post by ip26 »

woobar wrote: post #77
dcbadacd wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of [color]berries, have you trued blackcurrants, redcurrants and whitecurrants?

Currants are [mostly] unknown in the USA. Biggest reason is the ban on black currants cultivation from a 100 years ago. I don't care much for fresh red or white currants (they are good in jams though), but black currant is something I really miss here.

There are many other varieties of currant, many native and thus easy to grow.

Re: The Curse of the Honeycrisp Apple

#95

Post by CarVac »

citrus1330 wrote: post #83
GatorD42 wrote: post #80

The Honeycrisp is fine, but I don't love the trend of Apple varieties that taste like jolly ranchers (super sweet and crisp - see also Pink Lady or Jazz). Old fashioned apple varieties like Macintosh and even Red Delicious can be great in season from local farms - I had a Red Delicious today I would take over any Honeycrisp. I have friends who only eat Honeycrisp, I feel old when I complain that it's not a real apple…

I don't understand how anyone could feel this way. Pink Lady and Honeycrisp are so much better than Red Delicious they may as well not even be the same fruit. I'll never eat a Red Delicious again.

It's almost certainly about location. Maybe there's some climate where good-tasting Red Delicious grows.

I find that Fuji apples in the US are fairly bland, but when I was in Japan I had one from Aomori Prefecture. It was right up there with the best Honeycrisp I've ever had. Crisp in the same way, and just as flavorful in a different way.

Re: The Curse of the Honeycrisp Apple

#96

Post by kppullin »

mfarris wrote: post #71

Here in Los Angeles your typical store has 6-10 varieties of apple, almost all of them painfully similar. Braeburn, Jazz, Fuji, Honeycrisp, Gala, Ambrosia, Jonagold, Envy... these are all the same basic apple: overly sweet, hard/dense, not a lot of taste outside sugar. Envy apples are the yellow version of the same thing. Pink Ladies are marginally better. If anyone knows an LA area market where I can escape the tyra…

While a bit of a drive from LA, if you haven't made a trip out to Oak Glen I'd suggest a look at the various apple orchards out there: https://www.oakglen.net/ .

This place for example lists 25 or so varieties http://losriosrancho.com/produce/ and all the orchards I've visited over the years provide samples of most, if not all, of their stock.

Re: The Curse of the Honeycrisp Apple

#97

Post by killbrad »

baeuristik wrote: post #86
crazygringo wrote: post #79

This is one of the silliest articles I've ever read. > "Though it succeeded beyond anyone’s wildest dreams, along the way it became a nightmare for some producers, forcing small Northeastern growers to compete with their massive, climatically advantaged counterparts on the West Coast." > Prices for Honeycrisps Can Be 2-3x Other Apples > "So why do farmers put up with the hassle? They simply don’t have a choice. The d…

Think of it in terms of monoculture with all the attendant problems. I'm from Minnesota but have lived recently in a neighboring state. There is a very popular orchard near where we live. Part of its appeal has been the variety of apple varieties they had. Too many heirlooms to list, along with modern varieties such as honeycrisp. A few years ago I noticed the new owners (the old one retired because of age) were ripp…

Unfortunately, while I agree with you on the monoculture angle, I'm not sure this article covered it in any meaningful way.

It's really sad to grow food and know what it looks like, and then go into a grocery where everything looks like an identical twin. A forked carrot? Must have been mutated by nuclear waste! A strawberry that isn't the size of a Snickers bar? Can't possibly be good!

It's consumer attitudes and opinions that need to change to make this better. It's interesting in America especially where one of the foundational attributes of the culture is "individuality" that the consumers expect the opposite of their produce.

Re: The Curse of the Honeycrisp Apple

#98

Post by handystack »

Alex3917 wrote: post #91
notable_user wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a curse if you were a small orchard happily growing another apple variety. No one wants your apples anymore so you have to rip out all your trees an plant new one. (Side note: Really you’re grafting new branches.) That’s a lot of capital investment for a family business that might have been eeking along already. And, as the article says, who knows when you’ll need to switch to the next variety.

> Really you’re grafting new branches. Where does the expense come in for grafting? Isn't the only cost basically the parafilm? I'm not a grafter, but my understanding is that you just take some branches from the varietal you want to clone, cut off the tops off your existing root stock, and then connect the root stock with the twig using some grafting tape. Unless by capital investment you just mean the fact that you…

Apple trees take years to begin producing fruit. A new orchard is very expensive in terms of labor and the opportunity cost of tying up acreage with non-producing plants.

Re: The Curse of the Honeycrisp Apple

#99

Post by chx »

iambateman wrote: post #44

I just want to say that I spent my childhood eating terrible red delicious apples and honey crisp apples are a revelation and I don’t care if they cost $18/pound they’re still worth it.

The apples I have eaten in my childhood behind the Iron Curtain were so bad I have not eaten any for decades until my doctor almost forced it and then I tasted honeycrisp and I was like "OMFG this is good!"

Re: The Curse of the Honeycrisp Apple

#100

Post by draw_down »

spiritcat wrote: post #74

Wow sounds like they're talking about JavaScript frameworks. A few good years then on to new hotness. Think of all those poor red delicious trees.

You guys are so ingenious at figuring out how to make digs at JavaScript! I’m serious, I really respect the creativity on display here
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